This image sums up, in entirety, the problem we atheists have when we try to have logical conversations with you:

You simply won't.

(September 19, 2012 at 9:33 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote: This image sums up, in entirety, the problem we atheists have when we try to have logical conversations with you:

You simply won't.

Which is why I have been arguing for rational Christianity, a religion that is stripped of its supernatural nonsense. And it's funny that atheists are opposing me like I have done something wrong.

(September 19, 2012 at 9:50 am)greneknight Wrote: Which is why I have been arguing for rational Christianity, a religion that is stripped of its supernatural nonsense. And it's funny that atheists are opposing me like I have done something wrong.

Because religion, stripped of its supernatural nonsense, is nothing.

(September 19, 2012 at 9:52 am)genkaus Wrote:

(September 19, 2012 at 9:50 am)greneknight Wrote: Which is why I have been arguing for rational Christianity, a religion that is stripped of its supernatural nonsense. And it's funny that atheists are opposing me like I have done something wrong.

Because religion, stripped of its supernatural nonsense, is nothing.

So, do you find it threatening if it's nothing? Why do people oppose me?

Because you admit you believe in nothing... Atheist tend to be skeptical by nature, your faith in what you freely admit is nothing is disturbing.

(September 19, 2012 at 9:53 am)greneknight Wrote: So, do you find it threatening if it's nothing? Why do people oppose me?

Ofcourse I find it threatening. There is nothing more dangerous than commitment to practice over principle.

As of now, religion is seen as a package deal. All the social, cultural and moral baggage that comes with it finds its roots in the supernatural bullshit that precedes it. The fact is, atheists don't mind the supernatural part that much. We all enjoy good fiction every now and then. The problem we have is usually with the rest of it that we have to live with in our daily lives. What we hope for when we argue against the supernatural part is that if that goes away then things that follow would go away as well.

What you are trying to do is to get rid of the supernatural part and keep the rest of it. To what extent - I don't know - because you've never said. Essentially, you are taking away the principle and keeping the practice simply because it is practiced. And since the best way to discourage a practice is by attacking the principle behind it and you have removed the principle behind it, you don't leave many options.

I wouldn't say disturbing...that's a kind of strong word. I would say more...hmm...skeptical.

Stripped of supernatural claims, religion is basically a bunch of stories and parables. Some might say it is for lessons worth learning but having gone over the bible pretty extensively I can pretty much come to the conclusion that there's nothing in it that has any lessons that have any application in a modern society. Maybe if we had more of an in-depth analysis of Jesus' life, sure. But if you strip away the supernatural, Jesus himself becomes an absolutely repugnant, egomaniacal psychopath who advocates division and strife being waged for his own ego's benefit, and a man completely devoid of any respect for secular laws, again for the sole sake of stroking his ego and fantastic delusions.

Grene, I think you are an atheist in the making. It may not be now or in the next year even but you'll find eventually that convenience will bring less and less comfort and eventually you'll find that there are too many questions and too few answers to be found in religion.

I could be wrong, of course, it may never happen, but...it's very likely that it will, is all I am saying. You are a logical man from everything I've seen and, hell, far more sensical than any other Christian here. You'll come to the conclusion eventually, I think.

I have to say you are right Creed, disturbing has too much of a negative connotation for this conversation, my bad.

Grene, just keep being yourself and exploring your thoughts and beliefs. It wasn't my intention to judge or chastise you. Whatever you believe is a-okay by me, as long as you don't expect me to believe it too :-)

(September 19, 2012 at 9:53 am)greneknight Wrote:

(September 19, 2012 at 9:52 am)genkaus Wrote: Because religion, stripped of its supernatural nonsense, is nothing.

So, do you find it threatening if it's nothing? Why do people oppose me?

I don't specifically disagree, but I still question.

I suppose Christianity as a secular philosophy can make a lot of sense, if you focus in on the parts where Jesus talks about compassion, brotherhood, charity and speaks out against greed and hypocrites.

And I'm also glad you don't believe in any of the Biblical garbage that's demonstrably false, dangerous, stupid or hurtful. It's more than I can say of a lot of Christians out there.

I'll still question your beliefs, but that isn't a sign that I'm hostile towards your them. I simply don't understand but I want to.

I don't think there is any belief of mine that you don't accept. I don't believe in ANYTHING supernatural. That includes God, angels, heaven, hell, demons, etc.