(September 20, 2012 at 9:55 pm)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: .

I am not a Muslim/Sikh because the Quran doesn't not match the historical information we have regarding Jesus of Nazareth. The Quran teaches that Jesus was nailed to a cross and crucified.

There Raayn proof the Quran is wrong.

(September 20, 2012 at 9:55 pm)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: I am not a Muslim/Sikh because the Quran doesn't not match the historical information we have regarding Jesus of Nazareth.

How much do we know about Jesus for certain at all?

(September 20, 2012 at 9:55 pm)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: The Quran teaches that Jesus was nailed to a cross and crucified. History says he was.

Seems like you just forgot to type the word "not" there, because the Quran says that Jesus was not crucified nor killed, but says that he was only raised up (alive) by God as a manifestation of one of His miracles when seized by his opponents and to protect him from any harm and humiliation. Of course, there is no historical evidence to support that belief in the first place, and that's why your statement that the Quran doesn't "match the historical information" can't be proven nor disproven.

As for the Christian view, on the other hand, I've also heard that there are many different and contradictory accounts of the crucifixion story, which makes the belief in crucifixion historically weaker and altogether more implausible. Also, to my knowledge, no contemporary writing or immediately following Jesus' time mention a thing about some of the extraordinary events surrounding the story of his alleged crucifixion. See the article below:

Quote:Early depictions of the Passion of Christ tended to omit the crucifixion, and there are very few representations of it in the Early Christian and Early Byzantine period. The Basque Crucifixion was shown to be a modern fake created by Basque separatists; who's represented in the Alexamenos Graffito will never be certain, nor can it be dated with much certainty; and the fresco in a tomb on the Esquiline pre-dates the Christian period by several centuries. Several graffiti from Pompeii mention crucifixion but as a Roman insult or punishment (source). Although the Romans used crucifixion regularly, again in pre-Christian art it was very rarely depicted. There are very few images of crucifixion, and not all can be linked to Jesus' crucifixion.

http://phdiva.blogspot.com/2011/08/early...ixion.html

This is exactly why I'm an atheist. Everyone's religion is as equally valid, and they're all different, but none of them make any sense.

Rayaan, I would love to debate you about Islam.

Rayaan is one of those people... I don't care what patriarchal, invisible, creator deity he worships, I like him anyway.

Quote:How much do we know about Jesus for certain at all?

Not a fucking thing, Rayaan.



Unfortunately, the same is true for your boy.

(September 21, 2012 at 12:21 am)Minimalist Wrote: Unfortunately, the same is true for your boy.

I disagree. One proof, is that if Quran was all made up by people after Prophet Mohammad and Prophet Mohammad was made up, we would've read about all sorts of miracles like we find in the hadiths, in Quran. Like we find in the Bible.

Instead there is all sorts of red herrings avoiding why a sign is not sent with the Prophet and finally an answer that doesn't make any sense: that the only reason for not sending a sign is due to former people rejecting them in the past.

I know there was the moon miracle, but why write about that miracle, and write many verses about the objection of why not being sent with a sign with red herrings. In fact, it's possible the moon miracle was added later...but I don't think the the repeated mention about why he wasn't sent with signs would've been added later.

If it was people making it up, they would've stayed consistent with the stories of the Prophets and miracles, and miracles with the last Prophet. But this was a major problem the Prophet Mohammad faced. He spoke about Prophets in the past and they were sent with miracles, and so people objected, why aren't we sent with a sign like the people in the past were sent signs?

Why would people making up the whole story come up with such a problem and inconsistency?

@OP

I became a Christian when I was old enough to understand what the Bible actually contained (poems, letters, historical accounts). Everything fell into place and I sincerely believed from then on that Jesus was the Son of God.

Upon wanting to show others why this was all true, my research revealed that in a nutshell there's no evidence to support my 'ideal' view of Christianity. It's all tradition that has been passed down from generation to generation. There's no evidence that backs it up and what's more is that the evidence suggests it couldn't of happened the way we get told at sunday school/mass of how it happened.

Read Robert Spencer's "Did Muhammad Exist." The hadiths are politically motivated.

There was a lot of that going on in the early centuries CE. People tend to forget that, in favour of the nice 'n' fluffy Jesus or Mohammed stories.