(September 17, 2009 at 10:48 am)binny Wrote: Well me being a democrat and a bleeding heart liberal is all in favor of socialism. Yes! Give me that socialized medicine, socialized schools, socialized police, socialized firefighters, socialized highways..........

Plus of course free or subsidised hookers for the chronically ugly or old and ugly.



I'm always a bit bemused by claims of being 'for moral values' as I'm not really sure what is meant. Are such people implying that the rest of us don't support moral values? Or perhaps that their values (such as the work ethic) are absolute moral imperatives?

EG I've already stated I see capitalism as innately IMMORAL. This is nothing unusual,simply a Marxist view.

@Adrian

Yours is a classic case of a class traitor due to false consciousness.

Quote:False consciousness is the Marxist thesis that material and institutional processes in capitalist society are misleading to the proletariat, and to other classes. These processes betray the true relations of forces between those classes, and the real state of affairs regarding the development of pre-socialist society (relative to the secular development of human society in general).

This is essentially a result of ideological control which the proletariat either do not know they are under or disregard with a view to their own POUM (probability/possibility of upward mobility)[1]. POUM (not to be confused with the Workers' Party of Marxist Unification, POUM) or something like it is required in economics with its presumption of rational agency; otherwise wage laborers would be the conscious supporters of social relations antithetical to their own interests, violating that presumption[2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consciousness

So "class traitor" is a socialist propaganda word meaning "person who strives towards a higher wage in a capitalistic society"? Interesting.

So you'd prefer to be "loyal" to your class workers rather than invest yourself in new skills and abilities, and ultimately a higher wage? No wonder socialism doesn't work.

(September 17, 2009 at 7:29 pm)dry land fish Wrote: Actually the Democrats nor the Republicans are following what their party really stands for. They just sit up in Washington pretending to follow the party but in reality they are just robbing the taxpayers.

Call me a hopeless romantic, but I don't believe this. Yes there are crooked politicians out there who only get into it for the money and don't give a shit about anyone else but themselves, but I believe that some truly do want to help our communities and country. I believe Barack Obama is sincere. I don't agree with everything he says, but he seems sincere to me, and I him The last guy, not so much.

(September 17, 2009 at 7:29 pm)dry land fish Wrote: I'm telling you that no one I know in my area that I talk to likes social programs regardless of their party. I live in a Democratic majority county

The problem is your small corner does not reflect the majority of the US. I live in a red county and almost no one here feel like they do in your area. If it weren't for social programs like pubic schools my son would not get an education or be able to learn how to socialize with other people. He is in a state funded program now that is teaching him how to use public transportation, budget money, how to behave appropriately in public and he gets to get out and spend time with others who are like him. It's great. If it weren't for social programs my son would be an outcast from society and so would many others. Social programs are not evil. Yes there are people who abuse the system, it happens everywhere, but there are a great many who benefit from these programs.
My name is Tammy and I'm a Socialist or a bleeding heart liberal

(September 18, 2009 at 12:28 pm)binny Wrote: [quote='dry land fish' pid='33884' dateline='1253230188']


The problem is your small corner does not reflect the majority of the US. I live in a red county and almost no one here feel like they do in your area. If it weren't for social programs like pubic schools my son would not get an education or be able to learn how to socialize with other people. He is in a state funded program now that is teaching him how to use public transportation, budget money, how to behave appropriately in public and he gets to get out and spend time with others who are like him. It's great. If it weren't for social programs my son would be an outcast from society and so would many others. Social programs are not evil. Yes there are people who abuse the system, it happens everywhere, but there are a great many who benefit from these programs.
My name is Tammy and I'm a Socialist or a bleeding heart liberal

Well you live in a "red" county and I live in a "blue" one so why are you trying to compare them? Of course they are different and all people are different. Schools are great social programs. Welfare and healthcare...not so great. It's ok to have some social programs. You can't go too far and make it a socialist country though. Too much of a good thing is never a good thing. Have you not realized that? We have to keep those who abuse the system from getting the chance to abuse it. That means stopping it all together and working on trying to get people to where they can have better jobs so they don't need so much help from the government.

I mean our hands are tied as citizens. We could easily do as my friend suggested and give people who get welfare and disability checks or health insurance a drug test at random every few weeks. If they piss hot then they get cut off. But then the bleeding heart Liberals always say "well that's just wrong and the have the right to do drugs even if they pay for them with our money". So...then if the government won't work out a plan to keep those abusers of the system in check then we just don't need that system. I don't have a problem with people using drugs as long as they pay for them with their money. The idea of a social system is to help people to live...not to give them money to party with. You can't expect to have the life of a CEO on government handouts. It will never be "fair" by spreading the wealth around. I mean HOW do we control the abuse because it seems like you think only a few abuse it. The majority abuse it right now.

Ooh, I live in a hematite black-moonlight silver-aqua blue-ice blue county! ^_^ Let's compare that to red or blue: mine looks cooler > _ >

My hands aren't tied It would be kinda hard to type if they were...

Yes... those were lame jokes... but to be honest: no lamer than the defense you give here, dlf

(September 18, 2009 at 1:04 pm)Saerules Wrote: Ooh, I live in a hematite black-moonlight silver-aqua blue-ice blue county! ^_^ Let's compare that to red or blue: mine looks cooler > _ >

My hands aren't tied It would be kinda hard to type if they were...

Yes... those were lame jokes... but to be honest: no lamer than the defense you give here, dlf

What do you know? You aren't even 18. You have no clue about anything but how oppressive you think your parents are, how you think you shouldn't learn anything that your school is teaching you, and you go on tangents that don't ever make any sense. I mean seriously what can you contribute to this? Do you even have a job and pay taxes or do your parents pay for all of your care? What do your parents think about this? Have you asked them or do you think they are stupid just like all teens think they know more than their parents?

(September 18, 2009 at 1:26 pm)dry land fish Wrote: ...all teens think they know more than their parents

If I'm honest, my dad IS pretty dumb when it comes to everything

But c'mon DLF, enough of the ad hominem. Attack her arguments, not her age

Wow... talk about clueless, DLF... o.o

---

(September 18, 2009 at 2:26 pm)LukeMC Wrote:

(September 18, 2009 at 1:26 pm)dry land fish Wrote: ...all teens think they know more than their parents

If I'm honest, my dad IS pretty dumb when it comes to everything

But c'mon DLF, enough of the ad hominem. Attack her arguments, not her age

Some other members of the forum might do well to remember the bold as well ish

And she has been warned for it.

(September 18, 2009 at 12:55 pm)dry land fish Wrote: Well you live in a "red" county and I live in a "blue" one so why are you trying to compare them?

I'm not comparing anything. I'm simply trying to point out that where you live isn't how the entire country feels.
I switched to popcorn. Don't make me have to switch back to the dead horse.

(September 18, 2009 at 12:55 pm)dry land fish Wrote: We could easily do as my friend suggested and give people who get welfare and disability checks or health insurance a drug test at random every few weeks.

And who will pay for this? TAX PAYERS.