(October 1, 2012 at 9:17 am)Drich Wrote:

(October 1, 2012 at 12:20 am)Cinjin Wrote: Umm, what life has your god given?? Certainly not his own. His sons life perhaps?

God has given you a life. This life He has given you was purposed for you to make a choice about where you wish to spend eternity.

Deflection - this is not the question I asked, and even if your god had "given me life," you just admitted that his sole purpose for doing so was so that he could watch me make a choice about HIM. How do you not get this??? The dude loves himself beyond imagination, not me or you pal.

(October 1, 2012 at 9:17 am)Drich Wrote:

(October 1, 2012 at 12:20 am)Cinjin Wrote: I see no life given. How does an immortal being who gets to come back from the grave at any time and float into paradise give his life???
Only a mortal can make a true sacrifice of his life. Not some wine making, water walking, dead raising, temporarily earth bound deity.

We do not completely understand what Christ has given up in order for His sacerfice to have been sufficeint for all man kind.

That's always your goto answer isn't it? I've read it from you at least a dozen times. "We just can't understand" is a copout even for an apologist. It's pathetic. It does not offer an answer for anything. It's a semi-polite way of saying, "I don't have a fucking clue how to side-step that one."

(October 1, 2012 at 9:17 am)Drich Wrote:

(October 1, 2012 at 12:20 am)Cinjin Wrote: o please, you and GC have made it VERY clear that we've made the wrong choice.

And everyone here has informed me of what they think of my choice. The difference being I do not badger belittle and mock your choice.

You're not badgering and mocking? You know damn well that there is no reason for you to be here other than to stir up hostility. You have no questions. You believe you have all the answers. Your mind is completely closed to anything outside of your cult and just being here is badgering. Admit it, you're here because you like the drama. You like the blasphemy and the mocking. You like the attention of it all. You like being a thorn in our side. On a christian forum, you're bored and you're just another sheep in the pen that no one cares about, but here you're somebody. Don't try to bull shit me by playing the martyr.

(October 1, 2012 at 9:17 am)Drich Wrote:

Cinjin Wrote:If your god is so fucking "ok" with us not wanting to be with him, than why is he casting us all into a place he made for making that choice.

I think you have it backwards. Hell is the absents of Creation. All that God created is what you have turned your back on. God didn't 'create' Hell. Hell is the Darkness in which Creation was call out from. It is the oppsite of Creation and the furthest one can get from God.

Thats not even biblical, and I know of literally thousands of christians who would gladly call you a heretic for such a statement. Your god supposedly created everything and yes, that does include hell. Telling me that I'm CHOOSING hell when the bible CLEARLY says that I will be CAST into hell is just your lame apologist way of getting around the truth of the vindictive narcissistic nature of your god. To be honest, this isn't even a stretching of the truth. You are just telling an outright lie. I do not choose to go to hell and even your silly bible agrees with me. I'm getting real fucking tired of you trying to candy-coat "the weeping and gnashing of teeth" and the "eternal torment" of your god's twisted creation. You are a liar.

(October 1, 2012 at 9:17 am)Drich Wrote:

(October 1, 2012 at 12:20 am)Cinjin Wrote: You just refuse to see the complete lack of logic in your rationalizing of your god. Which brings me to the question, WHY would you want to "be with god."

I love God because He first loved me!

No, he didn't and still doesn't. When you burn billions of people for an eternity for not subliminally accepting you by way of accepting the son you sacrificed to a bunch of stupid primitives - you clearly love yourself first and foremost.

(October 1, 2012 at 9:17 am)Drich Wrote:

(October 1, 2012 at 12:20 am)Cinjin Wrote: What's so special about your god that makes you want to spend any time with him whatsoever. He DOES NOT LOVE you Drich, he has always loved only himself, and has proven it ever since he was invented.

That statement is going to be pretty hard to prove to me especially in leu of all that He has done for me.

He has done nothing for you. You see and feel what you want to - just like these devout long time christians.

(October 1, 2012 at 9:17 am)Drich Wrote: God Loves us and if we let Him will love us boundlessly. If you refuse His love, then know the love He has for you will end at the offer of redemption He has presented to you.

I cannot refuse love that does not exist from a being that has evolved from the minds of men for 3000+ years.
It is not real Drich. I use to be one of you. Open your eyes.

(October 1, 2012 at 12:36 pm)Fitzwilly Wrote:

(September 23, 2012 at 10:53 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote:

---

(8:18 pm. PST) edit: This is not about the story of the sacrifice of Isaac!

You almost never hear this but God in the OT actually explicitly commanded child sacrifice and then later changed his mind.

The command from God for child sacrifice. Exodus 22:29-30,
God later changed his mind. Ezekiel 20:25-26

---

I remember reading these passages in an Old Testament class back in Bible College. I was perplexed, then horrified as an 18yr old kid thinking that I could not believe in a never-changing, consistent god. As a PK (preacher's kid) growing up in the Christian faith, I was very aware of what it says in the Book of Malachi 3:6: "I am the Lord, and I do not change".

The Professor was a bit liberal with Biblical interpretation and agreed, god did change. So what does this really say about the Good Book? There's really no other way to interpret this. The Bible contradicts itself - over and over again. And I find it so amazing that highly intelligent people give these contradictions a pass, all in the name of "God's Mysterious Ways".

The professor changed not God, why would a mere mortal be able to determine what God is or is not.

(October 1, 2012 at 9:58 pm)Godschild Wrote: The professor changed not God, why would a mere mortal be able to determine what God is or is not.

because a mere mortal created him.

(September 23, 2012 at 11:22 pm)Drich Wrote: Your quote in exo 22 hinges on the word "Give" to mean Human sacerfice. The word in the Hebrew is: נתן/nathan. It means to dedicate or promise to. http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...5414&t=KJV
Actually it can mean a varity of things, however none of which have anything t do with Human sacerfice.

So here we see Drippy trying to wiggle out of a little problem for his fucking god by pretending that he is such a consummate scholar that he ( and he alone) knows what this fucking bullshit means.

However, people who translate this shit for a living say:

Quote:<< Exodus 22:29 >>

New International Version (©1984)
"Do not hold back offerings from your granaries or your vats. "You must give me the firstborn of your sons.

New Living Translation (©2007)
"You must not hold anything back when you give me offerings from your crops and your wine. "You must give me your firstborn sons.

English Standard Version (©2001)
“You shall not delay to offer from the fullness of your harvest and from the outflow of your presses. The firstborn of your sons you shall give to me.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"You shall not delay the offering from your harvest and your vintage. The firstborn of your sons you shall give to Me.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"Never withhold your best wine from me. "You must give me your firstborn son.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
You shall not delay to offer the first of your ripe fruits, and of the outflow of your presses: the firstborn of your sons shall you give unto me.

American King James Version
You shall not delay to offer the first of your ripe fruits, and of your liquors: the firstborn of your sons shall you give to me.

American Standard Version
Thou shalt not delay to offer of thy harvest, and of the outflow of thy presses. The first-born of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou shalt not delay to pay thy tithes and thy firstfruits: thou shalt give the firstborn of thy sons to me.

Darby Bible Translation
Thou shalt not delay the fulness of thy threshing-floor and the outflow of thy winepress. The firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

English Revised Version
Thou shalt not delay to offer of the abundance of thy fruits, and of thy liquors. The firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

Webster's Bible Translation
Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the first-born of thy sons shalt thou give to me.

World English Bible
"You shall not delay to offer from your harvest and from the outflow of your presses. "You shall give the firstborn of your sons to me.

Young's Literal Translation
'Thy fulness and thy liquids thou dost not delay; the first-born of thy sons thou dost give to Me;

Why do you suppose it is, Drippy, that all these translations don't agree with you?

Could it be that you are full of shit?

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: That's always your goto answer isn't it? I've read it from you at least a dozen times. "We just can't understand" is a copout even for an apologist. It's pathetic. It does not offer an answer for anything. It's a semi-polite way of saying, "I don't have a fucking clue how to side-step that one."

Then please explain the complete nature of Christ's sacerfice.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: You're not badgering and mocking?

Not all of the time no.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: You know damn well that there is no reason for you to be here other than to stir up hostility.

Honestly stirring up hostility had never entered my mind. any Hostility stirred up is just a bonus Just kidding, seriously I have no intentions of chasing you down and beating you with faith or lack of. That is why i only post in this subforum, and leave you all with the rest of your website to discuss whatever you like. Plus if you will note from the beginning if one drops a subject or canot or does not want to argue any more I do not chase themdown and force anyone to accept my win. If i was here to badger and mock/create hostility it would be done in those instances.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: You have no questions.

God answered Most all of my questions, now i seek yours so I can continue to learn.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: You believe you have all the answers.

What are you talking about? I ask questions in every post.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Your mind is completely closed to anything outside of your cult

Admittly so. why? Because there is nothing anyone can offer that will trump what God has given me.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: and just being here is badgering.

to whom? You? What of everyone else who has legitmate questions?

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Admit it, you're here because you like the drama.

honestly I skim read most of the 'dramatic' posts so i do not have to read all of the personal feelings you all tie to your works. I look for the questions and bad theology and then look to correct your understandings so you can make an informed desision and not one from a position of uninformed obstinance or from honest ignorance.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: You like the blasphemy and the mocking.

I do have to admit that i have a weakness for throwing your own mocking blaspheme or hyprocrisy back at you, from time to time, but do not do it to break anyones spirit. I do it as part of the checks and balances one has to be apart of this type of community. i have been posting these involved line by line posts for 5+ years. If one does not push back from time to time, one gets completely dismissed/accused of posting disconnected non topical garbage.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: You like the attention of it all.

Attention from whom? you? that and 5 dollars buys you a coffie from starbucks.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: You like being a thorn in our side.

In part yes. The reason i am a thorn is because you can not dismiss me in good conscience, nor can you adequatly refute everything i say. causeing you to question not only what I believe but what you believe about what I believe as well. which if nothing else is a start.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: On a christian forum, you're bored and you're just another sheep in the pen that no one cares about, but here you're somebody. Don't try to bull shit me by playing the martyr.

Actually over there I am a rock star
who can do or say whatever i want. i have been asked to be apart of the adminstrative team. The problem with CF is that they will not allow anyone to question God to the level that He can be questioned here. I maybe able to say what I want but the atheist who ask questions god/christianity can not. The final straw was with someone like Darkstar who had strong questions, but i believed them to be sincere. the problem was that He was asking questions that made members take a hard look at their own faiths. i made some very decisive and accurate judgements against certain denominations. Instead of repermanding me they dismissed the atheist, and deleted all of the threads he was apart of. I am here to answer questions like that, in a format that encourages hard questions to be asked. I am still a member there but spend most of my time here trying to help you people. because you ask question that i would not have thought to ask for myself. Helping you helps me to know God better.. (When you guys aren't cut and pasting from websites.)

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Thats not even biblical, and I know of literally thousands of christians who would gladly call you a heretic for such a statement. Your god supposedly created everything and yes, that does include hell.

You wanted me to ask you a question then So show me what you can do. What day did God create Hell? Why didn't He tell the Jews about the place He created? Why was 'Hell' described to the Jews as 'The grave' or the "Abyss?" why wasn't your understanding of Hell communicated to the jews if they too were endanged of it?

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Telling me that I'm CHOOSING hell when the bible CLEARLY says that I will be CAST into hell is just your lame apologist way of getting around the truth of the vindictive narcissistic nature of your god.

If you do not choose redemption, then by default you have chosen Hell. The Choice you are given is for life. Do you choose to live eternally? No? Then it is accurate to say you chose death/eternal seperation.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: To be honest, this isn't even a stretching of the truth. You are just telling an outright lie. I do not choose to go to hell and even your silly bible agrees with me. I'm getting real fucking tired of you trying to candy-coat "the weeping and gnashing of teeth" and the "eternal torment" of your god's twisted creation. You are a liar.

If you do not choose eternal life, what is God to do with you? Drag you kicking and screaming into Heaven to be a slave? If you do not choose to be an eternal slave of God then you choose to be eternally seperated from God.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: No, he didn't and still doesn't.

Ya-huh, god does love me! ;P

Quote: When you burn billions of people for an eternity for not subliminally accepting you by way of accepting the son you sacrificed to a bunch of stupid primitives - you clearly love yourself first and foremost.

i can honestly tell you there is no one going to be in Hell who wanted to love and be with God with all of their Hearts, Mind, Spirit and Strength. That said Hell will be full of those who love themselves over God. If I am one of these people then you can tell me I told you so for all eternity.

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: He has done nothing for you. You see and feel what you want to - just like these devout long time christians.

I honestly and objectivly see what God has placed infront of me.

Quote:I cannot refuse love that does not exist from a being that has evolved from the minds of men for 3000+ years.
It is not real Drich. I use to be one of you. Open your eyes.

(This is "One of those times")
I can not refuse love that is over flowing in front of me, From a being that has loved the minds and hearts of men for 3000++Years.
It is Real Cynjin. I use to be one of you. Open your eyes!

---

(October 1, 2012 at 10:28 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(September 23, 2012 at 11:22 pm)Drich Wrote: Your quote in exo 22 hinges on the word "Give" to mean Human sacerfice. The word in the Hebrew is: נתן/nathan. It means to dedicate or promise to. http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...5414&t=KJV
Actually it can mean a varity of things, however none of which have anything t do with Human sacerfice.

So here we see Drippy trying to wiggle out of a little problem for his fucking god by pretending that he is such a consummate scholar that he ( and he alone) knows what this fucking bullshit means.

However, people who translate this shit for a living say:

Quote:<< Exodus 22:29 >>

New International Version (©1984)
"Do not hold back offerings from your granaries or your vats. "You must give me the firstborn of your sons.

New Living Translation (©2007)
"You must not hold anything back when you give me offerings from your crops and your wine. "You must give me your firstborn sons.

English Standard Version (©2001)
“You shall not delay to offer from the fullness of your harvest and from the outflow of your presses. The firstborn of your sons you shall give to me.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"You shall not delay the offering from your harvest and your vintage. The firstborn of your sons you shall give to Me.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"Never withhold your best wine from me. "You must give me your firstborn son.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
You shall not delay to offer the first of your ripe fruits, and of the outflow of your presses: the firstborn of your sons shall you give unto me.

American King James Version
You shall not delay to offer the first of your ripe fruits, and of your liquors: the firstborn of your sons shall you give to me.

American Standard Version
Thou shalt not delay to offer of thy harvest, and of the outflow of thy presses. The first-born of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou shalt not delay to pay thy tithes and thy firstfruits: thou shalt give the firstborn of thy sons to me.

Darby Bible Translation
Thou shalt not delay the fulness of thy threshing-floor and the outflow of thy winepress. The firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

English Revised Version
Thou shalt not delay to offer of the abundance of thy fruits, and of thy liquors. The firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

Webster's Bible Translation
Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the first-born of thy sons shalt thou give to me.

World English Bible
"You shall not delay to offer from your harvest and from the outflow of your presses. "You shall give the firstborn of your sons to me.

Young's Literal Translation
'Thy fulness and thy liquids thou dost not delay; the first-born of thy sons thou dost give to Me;

Why do you suppose it is, Drippy, that all these translations don't agree with you?

Could it be that you are full of shit?

Show me where 'Give' Means To Give up for the express purpose of Human sacerfice. My defination or rather the reason i gave the defination you posted of the word that translates (correctly) into the word 'Give' is to show what Give means. It means to dedicate bestow to GIVE. Not To Kill! "Give" here simply means to offer, not to make a blood sacerfice. (Which btw is exactly what is said in the post you quoted from)

Try again Minnie.

Circles and circles.

(October 1, 2012 at 11:23 pm)Drich Wrote:

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Your mind is completely closed to anything outside of your cult

Admittly so. why? Because there is nothing anyone can offer that will trump what God has given me.

Then what is there to fear? What can be the harm in opening your mind to other things, since what you believe your god has given you trumps all else? If your faith is truly unimpeachable, it cannot possibly be threatened in any way, surely?

Drich Wrote:

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: You have no questions.

God answered Most all of my questions, now i seek yours so I can continue to learn.

Drich Wrote:

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: You believe you have all the answers.

What are you talking about? I ask questions in every post.

But you just said...

Drich Wrote:

(October 1, 2012 at 8:24 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Your mind is completely closed to anything outside of your cult

Admittly so. why? Because there is nothing anyone can offer that will trump what God has given me.

God ahsn't really given you anything. We can't trump the promise of heaven while remaining realistic, so basically...



AND






I think this video answers the question pretty nicely:





And what about those who genuinely don't believe he exists? Why won't he just reveal himself so it's, you know, an actual decision.



And you 'know' it was god because 1. He told you so, or
2. That warm fuzzy feeling says so



This doesn't go anywhere. Clearly Cinjin didn't feel any of this love when he was a theist, and you claim to interpret a nondescript emotion as god.




Did you forget about this: http://atheistforums.org/thread-14912-po...#pid341141

(October 1, 2012 at 11:23 pm)Drich Wrote: ...
Show me where 'Give' Means To Give up for the express purpose of Human sacerfice. My defination or rather the reason i gave the defination you posted of the word that translates (correctly) into the word 'Give' is to show what Give means. It means to dedicate bestow to GIVE. Not To Kill! "Give" here simply means to offer, not to make a blood sacerfice. (Which btw is exactly what is said in the post you quoted from)

Try again Minnie.

Drich, I've pointed out twice in this thread that the word doesn't mean "to dedicate." It simply means "to give." Whether it implies "to dedicate" or not depends on the context which as I've argued seems to be better understood as child sacrifice.

Hey, Dickhead.... on the one hand we have a whole bunch of biblical translators who translate the word one way and on the other we have an internet dipshit like you trying to get his iron age god off the hook for being a blood-thirsty scumbag.

Why don't you guess which of you has more credibility?

Think real hard.....I know its tough for you!