(November 9, 2012 at 11:44 am)John V Wrote:

(November 9, 2012 at 10:02 am)pocaracas Wrote: Mainstream science says that, since the big-bang, approximately 13.6 billion years have passed, 13.6*10^9 years.
What happened before the big-bang is speculation. If there was already a Universe, so much the better, but we don't know.

I've already done the speculation:

The universe could have existed eternally as a singularity. However, there's then no reason for the big bang.

Universe was not a singularity, collapsed into a singularity, then big bang: i.e. a cyclic universe.

Another speculation could be:
- Eternal multiple singularities, when two collide (whatever that means), a big bang is generated.
- The singularity was always there, brooding, or something beyond our physics (as yet) until it poped.
- singularities are generated from other processes beyond our physics.
....

I could probably go on forever, imagination is one of those awesome infinite powers... or maybe the only infinite power in the known Universe!

(November 9, 2012 at 12:11 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Another speculation could be:
- Eternal multiple singularities, when two collide (whatever that means), a big bang is generated.

I don't believe you can have two singularites in the same space by definition.

Quote:- The singularity was always there, brooding, or something beyond our physics (as yet) until it poped.
- singularities are generated from other processes beyond our physics.

These are appeals to the supernatural, which atheists typically frown on.

(November 9, 2012 at 1:39 pm)John V Wrote:

(November 9, 2012 at 12:11 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Another speculation could be:
- Eternal multiple singularities, when two collide (whatever that means), a big bang is generated.

I don't believe you can have two singularites in the same space by definition.

Quote:- The singularity was always there, brooding, or something beyond our physics (as yet) until it poped.
- singularities are generated from other processes beyond our physics.

These are appeals to the supernatural, which atheists typically frown on.

We don't know what if anything came before or caused the big bang. There are several hypotheses. Some of them have some sort of supporting evidence, but they are mostly speculation.

If you John have a hypothesis that some god is responsible then please define your god, and present your evidence that it is responsible.

(November 9, 2012 at 1:55 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: If you John have a hypothesis

No, I have beliefs, not hypotheses.

(November 9, 2012 at 8:32 am)John V Wrote:

(November 9, 2012 at 4:30 am)genkaus Wrote: Wrong. You have to first prove that entropy must've been an part of universe for eternity.

Actually all I have to do (and I've already done) is point to mainstream science and the big bang. The universe had a beginning. Unless it's cyclical, it's not eternal.

So if you can comprehend that the universe is eternal based on the fact that "nothing" IS "something", then you should comprehend that "god" is evil since for " good" to exist, so must evil. Since "god" is older than "satan", then when there was only "god" in existence, and if he was good, then he was also evil. Furthermore, if you think satan "created" evil then you are guilty of blasphemy since your bible explains that god is the only "creator." If god is everything, then he is wicked.

(November 9, 2012 at 3:22 pm)SpecUVdust Wrote:

(November 9, 2012 at 8:32 am)John V Wrote: Actually all I have to do (and I've already done) is point to mainstream science and the big bang. The universe had a beginning. Unless it's cyclical, it's not eternal.

So if you can comprehend that the universe is eternal based on the fact that "nothing" IS "something",

How in the world do you get that from what you quoted? It's a complete non sequitur. Further, it hasn't been established as fact that nothing is something.

(November 9, 2012 at 11:44 am)John V Wrote: The universe could have existed eternally as a singularity. However, there's then no reason for the big bang.

The big bang is just an expansion of existence. Existence is eternal because non-existence never can exist by definition.

(November 9, 2012 at 3:47 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: The big bang is just an expansion of existence.

You can't dismiss the point by saying "just." If existence existed eternally in the form of a singularity, there's no reason for it to one day expand.

Unless the singularity was unstable. We don't know enough about the initial conditions to come to any sort of conclusion, including whether there were any initial conditions at all.

(November 9, 2012 at 3:58 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Unless the singularity was unstable.

An eternally existing singularity is obviously stable.