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November 10, 2012 at 11:33 am (This post was last modified: November 10, 2012 at 11:33 am by Cyberman.)
(November 9, 2012 at 7:00 pm)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: You seem to be saying that you would not have deduced that there are multiple "persons" within God from a plain reading of the Hebrew scripture.
I agree with you, one wouldn't have come to that conclusion which makes the conversion of sincere, passionate Jews into belief in Jesus and the Holy Spirit as God a phenomenal testimony to the truth of it...something like that wouldn't have been just thought up.
Quite clearly it was "just thought up", but let's take another example. We also have another story, presumably far more ancient than anything than JC is alleged to have done, which happened ina galaxy far, far away. We are told that an ancient and mystic order with demonstrable powers held an uneasy balance between good and evil. At varying points in the narrative, an immense superweapon was constructed with the ability to annihilate whole planets. I won't spoil the ending, but doesn't that story seem too fantastic and improbable to have been just thought up?
(November 9, 2012 at 7:00 pm)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: The best explanation for the origin for the disciples belief is that they really did witness a resurrection of Jesus which forced them to alter their view of God.
No, that's not the best explanation at all, depending of course on the working definition of 'best' which you don't give. The 'best', as in 'simplest, most plausible' and - dare I say it - 'reasonable' explanation is the same one that you are going to apply to my example above.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
(November 8, 2012 at 8:34 pm)catfish Wrote: Are you FUCKING SERIOUS?!?!?
You NEVER asked anyone to refute them. I believe everything you wrote...
Ok why I am wrong then, if are my points accurate to what people (Christians) believe. And if you really believe those 9 points, please for the sake of humanity, go see a psychiatrist.
What are you doing? Changing your claim?
Here is what you wrote:
(November 6, 2012 at 10:06 am)Gooders1002 Wrote: This is my personal opinion gathered from the words and agreements of Christians on this forum and how there tell us what their god it's like.
This is my view of what Christians believe about their god, them and their book:
1. An all powerful being that can literally go anything.
2. If he does something, it is automatically good and righteous (genocide, murder, rape etc..)
3. He only allows those who follow him without question to experience bliss and there rest get eternal punishment.
4. We are mere property which he can do anything to without punishment.
5. We were all born evil because of two peoples fuck up 6000 years ago.
6. Would be murdering left right and center if it was not for their book and God's word.
7. Would kill on command if it came from their God.
8. Believe (not all) that the earth is and the universe was 6000 years old.
9. Believe that primitive savages have more knowledge about the world then we do now.
Please tell me that you really don't believe this as if you do, you really need to get your head examined by a professional psychiatrist.
Please Christians tell me I am wrong and WHY I am wrong and We all know when you are bullshiting and I prefer if you were completely honest about what you really believe.
((bolded by me for emphasis*)
How can you be wrong about your own opinion? Unless you're lying of course...
November 13, 2012 at 11:17 am (This post was last modified: November 13, 2012 at 11:18 am by Gooders1002.)
(November 12, 2012 at 8:02 pm)catfish Wrote:
(November 9, 2012 at 1:34 am)Gooders1002 Wrote: Ok why I am wrong then, if are my points accurate to what people (Christians) believe. And if you really believe those 9 points, please for the sake of humanity, go see a psychiatrist.
What are you doing? Changing your claim?
Here is what you wrote:
(November 6, 2012 at 10:06 am)Gooders1002 Wrote: This is my personal opinion gathered from the words and agreements of Christians on this forum and how there tell us what their god it's like.
This is my view of what Christians believe about their god, them and their book:
1. An all powerful being that can literally go anything.
2. If he does something, it is automatically good and righteous (genocide, murder, rape etc..)
3. He only allows those who follow him without question to experience bliss and there rest get eternal punishment.
4. We are mere property which he can do anything to without punishment.
5. We were all born evil because of two peoples fuck up 6000 years ago.
6. Would be murdering left right and center if it was not for their book and God's word.
7. Would kill on command if it came from their God.
8. Believe (not all) that the earth is and the universe was 6000 years old.
9. Believe that primitive savages have more knowledge about the world then we do now.
Please tell me that you really don't believe this as if you do, you really need to get your head examined by a professional psychiatrist. Please Christians tell me I am wrong and WHY I am wrong and We all know when you are bullshiting and I prefer if you were completely honest about what you really believe.
((bolded by me for emphasis*)
How can you be wrong about your own opinion? Unless you're lying of course...
(bolded by me for emphasis on my questions (I need somebody to put question marks there))
I am not wrong, I asked a question and I want you to see if you agree with the points In my opinion that I think you really believe. A classic case of not reading the whole bloody thing. And I was trying to be nice.
(note can somebody put a ? after the 'Why I am wrong' thanks)
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Edward Gibbon (Offen misattributed to Lucius Annaeus Seneca or Seneca the Younger) (Thanks to apophenia for the correction)
'I am driven by two main philosophies:
Know more about the world than I knew yesterday and lessen the suffering of others. You'd be surprised how far that gets you' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
(November 12, 2012 at 8:02 pm)catfish Wrote: What are you doing? Changing your claim?
Here is what you wrote:
((bolded by me for emphasis*)
How can you be wrong about your own opinion? Unless you're lying of course...
(bolded by me for emphasis on my questions (I need somebody to put question marks there))
I am not wrong, I asked a question and I want you to see if you agree with the points In my opinion that I think you really believe. A classic case of not reading the whole bloody thing. And I was trying to be nice.
(note can somebody put a ? after the 'Why I am wrong' thanks)
LOL, you should just learn to speak more clearly...
"Please tell me that you really don't believe this": It was your personal opinion, I believed you when you made that claim...
"Please Christians tell me I am wrong and WHY I am wrong": It was your view, I believed you when you made that claim too...
Now, if you wanted my opinion on your 9 points, you should have made that clear...
1. Agree, no supporting evidence...
2. Disagree, I'm not qualified to judge God. (but in the whole scope of "eternity", here makes no difference) (fucking whiners)
3. Disagree, no supporting evidence...
4. Disagree, no supporting evidence...
5. Disagree, no supporting evidence...
6. Disagree, no supporting evidence...
7. Disagree, only an asshole would think God wants people killed...
8. Agree, some people ARE that dumb...
9. Undecided, the ancient Hebrews had statements, laws and rules that have been "discovered" by modern scientists and doctors as beneficial.
Stop trying to be "nice" and try to be honest and concise...
1. An all powerful being that can literally go anything.
2. If he does something, it is automatically good and righteous (genocide, murder, rape etc..)
3. He only allows those who follow him without question to experience bliss and there rest get eternal punishment.
4. We are mere property which he can do anything to without punishment.
5. We were all born evil because of two peoples fuck up 6000 years ago.
6. Would be murdering left right and center if it was not for their book and God's word.
7. Would kill on command if it came from their God.
8. Believe (not all) that the earth is and the universe was 6000 years old.
9. Believe that primitive savages have more knowledge about the world then we do now.
(November 17, 2012 at 2:33 am)catfish Wrote:
Now, if you wanted my opinion on your 9 points, you should have made that clear...
1. Agree, no supporting evidence...
2. Disagree, I'm not qualified to judge God. (but in the whole scope of "eternity", here makes no difference) (fucking whiners)
3. Disagree, no supporting evidence...
4. Disagree, no supporting evidence...
5. Disagree, no supporting evidence...
6. Disagree, no supporting evidence...
7. Disagree, only an asshole would think God wants people killed...
8. Agree, some people ARE that dumb...
9. Undecided, the ancient Hebrews had statements, laws and rules that have been "discovered" by modern scientists and doctors as beneficial.
Stop trying to be "nice" and try to be honest and concise...
Respones:
1. okay
2. Is this because he is powerful, or is there proof he is moral?
3. Technically you are correct...some questioning may be allowed in some instances. If you don't follow him, though, you will get eternal punishment.
4. So god can be punished for abusing us? How many times have I heard (err...read) that god can do what he wants with us because he created us?
5. After Adam and Eve committed original sin, everyone since has been burdened with it and they need Jesus because they can not be good enough on their own (due to being corrupted).
6. Depends; some people say morals are derived only from religion. To those people, this would be accurate.
7. Uh...Abraham? They even named them "abrahamic religions" in his honor for being so [blindly] loyal...
8. Okay.
9. Doctors discovered laws and rules to be beneficial? Not lawyers? Or are we talking about a different type of law?
(November 17, 2012 at 2:33 am)catfish Wrote: LOL, you should just learn to speak more clearly...
"Please tell me that you really don't believe this": It was your personal opinion, I believed you when you made that claim...
"Please Christians tell me I am wrong and WHY I am wrong": It was your view, I believed you when you made that claim too...
Now, if you wanted my opinion on your 9 points, you should have made that clear...
1. Agree, no supporting evidence...
2. Disagree, I'm not qualified to judge God. (but in the whole scope of "eternity", here makes no difference) (fucking whiners)
3. Disagree, no supporting evidence...
4. Disagree, no supporting evidence...
5. Disagree, no supporting evidence...
6. Disagree, no supporting evidence...
7. Disagree, only an asshole would think God wants people killed...
8. Agree, some people ARE that dumb...
9. Undecided, the ancient Hebrews had statements, laws and rules that have been "discovered" by modern scientists and doctors as beneficial.
Stop trying to be "nice" and try to be honest and concise...
I am not quite clear on your response so could you clear it up please, basically, do you personal believe those 9 points are true?
Example:
1. An all powerful being that can literally go anything.
'Yes I believe he is' or 'no I don't believe he is' .
just to clear everything up, and also why you believe or don't believe the point.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Edward Gibbon (Offen misattributed to Lucius Annaeus Seneca or Seneca the Younger) (Thanks to apophenia for the correction)
'I am driven by two main philosophies:
Know more about the world than I knew yesterday and lessen the suffering of others. You'd be surprised how far that gets you' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
(November 18, 2012 at 10:45 pm)Gooders1002 Wrote: I am not quite clear on your response so could you clear it up please, basically, do you personal believe those 9 points are true?
Example:
1. An all powerful being that can literally go anything.
'Yes I believe he is' or 'no I don't believe he is' .
just to clear everything up, and also why you believe or don't believe the point.
Holy shit dude. Do you not know what "agree" and "disagree" means? And WTF? I expounded on why I did or didn't believe your points.
Perhaps you should expound on why you think those points are believed???
