So, if you call yourself a rational atheist, why do you think atheism is rational? I believe that science (particularly physics) has basically proven that there is a God of some sort. Here's how:

Through the Big Bang theory, we see that the universe has now been widely accepted to have a beginning. We know that this beginning didn't spontaneously appear out of nothing, because nothing is a scientific impossibility*. Nothing can't create something, because it is nothing. It doesn't work. The only other possibility is that something created the universe.

--Lets stop for a second, and define God. This will make the rest of our conversation much easier if we define Him. By definition, he is omnipresent (present in all places and times), omnipotent (having unlimited power) , and omniscient (having all knowledge). There. Now we can continue without much confusion.--

So, something must have created the universe. If I go out and say, "God was the creator." you will most likely say, "Then who created God?" which is an amazing question. So lets explore it. If something created God, then something needed to create whatever created God, and something needed to create that, and something needed to create that, etc. You get an Infinite amount of creators (called an infinite regress), but you acknowledge that there is a creator of some sort.

--For reference, an infinite regress is something very hard to wrap your mind around. Its infinity. What is infinity? Infinity is a constant "something". Is infinity impossible? No. Actually, through reason, we know that it is only possible, because since there is no such thing as nothing, there always most be a constant something which is again: Infinity.--

So, if Infinity is possible, is infinite regress possible? Yes, but again, if you believe in an infinite regress (at least in this context) you are also acknowledging that there is some sort of a godly creator. Therefore, God is real in one form or another, and your atheism is refuted.

Another way of looking at this is by saying that, since the universe is everything, then the creator of the universe must have unlimited power (omnipotence), must be outside of time (omnipresence), and must know everything to create everything (omniscience). Sounds a lot like the criteria for God that I listed above, right?

I want you to answer this one question to me: If you don't believe that a Creator created the Universe, then how did the universe come about into existence?

*http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/nstv/2011/11/why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-empty-space.html

(November 25, 2012 at 2:04 am)journeyinghowie Wrote: So, if you call yourself a rational atheist, why do you think atheism is rational? I believe that science (particularly physics) has basically proven that there is a God of some sort. Here's how:

Through the Big Bang theory, we see that the universe has now been widely accepted to have a beginning.

ähhhhmmm actualy no.
The experiments and work conducted in Cern with the large Hydron colider have also the purpose to determine what happened before the big bang.
So, well, I see nothing wrong with taking something unknown and saying "god was it" as a personal statement, but it shouldnt be a universal statement or rule which would then hinder further investigation of the unknown.
I admit that I dont know what happened before the big bang - but this doesnt hinder me to find out more about that unknown.

And Herzlichst Willkommen to das Forum.

Awwww, you're cute. Stupid, but cute.

He's setting up his strawmen in a row so as to work up to the Kalam Argument. That's if he comes back; he graced us with about four minutes then went offline.

Can I get a scientific answer from anyone?

(November 25, 2012 at 2:27 am)journeyinghowie Wrote: Can I get a scientific answer from anyone?

I would need a scientific question to begin with.

(November 25, 2012 at 2:36 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote:

(November 25, 2012 at 2:27 am)journeyinghowie Wrote: Can I get a scientific answer from anyone?

I would need a scientific question to begin with.

What is your hypothesis about how the universe came into being?

(November 25, 2012 at 2:38 am)journeyinghowie Wrote: What is your hypothesis about how the universe came into being?

I dont have one.

(November 25, 2012 at 2:41 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote:

(November 25, 2012 at 2:38 am)journeyinghowie Wrote: What is your hypothesis about how the universe came into being?

I dont have one.

So, basically what you just told me, is that you don't know.... Doesn't seem like a good reason for me to become an Atheist.

(November 25, 2012 at 2:43 am)journeyinghowie Wrote:

(November 25, 2012 at 2:41 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: I dont have one.

So, basically what you just told me, is that you don't know.... Doesn't seem like a good reason for me to become an Atheist.

What's your hypothesis about how god came into existence?