(January 4, 2013 at 9:10 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(January 4, 2013 at 8:45 am)Zen Badger Wrote: Proof that Thor exists.

Thor is the god of thunder and lightning.

Thunder and lightning exist.

Therefore Thor exists.

TAH DAAH!!!!!

if there was something worth answering in the post originally someone would answer, how does reposting it change anything , just clik the thumbs up button for kudos why waste thread space with a repost and not even a comment of your own.

But the fact remains I and many others have made comments Mark, you seem to have a tendency to ignore them and not give any/ vague replies.

Why are you here?

(January 4, 2013 at 8:11 am)Mark 13:13 Wrote:

(January 3, 2013 at 9:24 pm)mr.atheist Wrote: Not its not a faith.
Not believing in something, isn't a faith.
Its more like the opposite actually.

I contend that if you cant prove the position you take even if you express such a position as a negative then you are still accepting some part on faith regardless of who has the burden of proof.

A lack of faith is not a position, its the lack the one.

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(January 3, 2013 at 11:42 am)Mark 13:13 Wrote: In truth I would find the Idea that death was the ultimate end comforting at one level in that I would never be accountable beyond my life for what I have done during it but at another level I would find the idea that life is a pointless accident and in the great scheme of things irrelevant no mater what we do as individuals or as a society unpallitable too.

I hate this argument. It's as though giving 'reason' to something is impossible unless there's something 'beyond us' to judge us on it.

A lot of theists use the 'no accountability" argument to insinuate that we, as godless heathens, effectively get away with what we will becuase hey, who cares? Nobody's judging us!

FALSE

What about judging ourselves, not on spiritual terms, but by terms others can relate to? What about judging ourselves on a level we understand by, for example, by many lives we make better by being good people ourselves, or by not being total dicks?

I see this argument as the reverse of how a theist sees it. I honestly believe that some theists think like this becuase they want to be judged on a narcissistic level. "Look at me [god], look at all the good things I've done in my life".

And I read once that pride was a sin.

Fidel_Castronau Wrote:A lack of faith is not a position, its the lack the one.

Tick one box to explain the position that you believe the statement "A lack of faith in gods" implies in answer to this statement.

There is a GOD 1) yes 2) no 3)don't know 4) other ** if other please explain.

Fidel_Castronau Wrote:A lot of theists use the 'no accountability" argument to insinuate that we, as godless heathens, effectively get away with what we will because hey, who cares? Nobody's judging us!

I thought Theists believe the opposite

Fidel_Castronau Wrote:What about judging ourselves, not on spiritual terms, but by terms others can relate to? What about judging ourselves on a level we understand by, for example, by many lives we make better by being good people ourselves, or by not being total dicks?

Very nice; but in an Athiest world how and who decides what is good/bad
or is that up to each individual. Is there even a universal good/bad or would it all be relative?

Fidel_Castronau Wrote:I see this argument as the reverse of how a theist sees it. I honestly believe that some theists think like this becuase they want to be judged on a narcissistic level. "Look at me [god], look at all the good things I've done in my life".

quite the opposite by personal my experience it would be interesting to have the pre Athiest feelings of those who were once Theists on if this would have described them.

Fidel_Castronau Wrote:And I read once that pride was a sin.

Well its considered the worse one of the seven deadly sins but pride itself is not the sin it is the root cause of many other sins. The main meaning in the theological sense would be..especially holding self out of proper position toward God.

(January 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Tick one box to explain the position that you believe the statement "A lack of faith in gods" implies in answer to this statement.

There is a GOD 1) yes 2) no 3)don't know 4) other ** if other please explain.

Agnostic atheist.

I don't know either way but as there's no evidence for any god or gods, I have no reason to believe, in any of them, or their claims.

You have to define and evidence your version of god before I can even begin to take any claims seriously.

(January 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote:

Fidel_Castronau Wrote:A lot of theists use the 'no accountability" argument to insinuate that we, as godless heathens, effectively get away with what we will because hey, who cares? Nobody's judging us!

I thought Theists believe the opposite

Ok.

(January 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote:

Fidel_Castronau Wrote:What about judging ourselves, not on spiritual terms, but by terms others can relate to? What about judging ourselves on a level we understand by, for example, by many lives we make better by being good people ourselves, or by not being total dicks?

Very nice; but in an Athiest world how and who decides what is good/bad
or is that up to each individual. Is there even a universal good/bad or would it all be relative?

Morality is subjective. A 16th century Scottish border town would find certain behaviours completely normal that we would be averse to, and the same is true the opposite way around.

The only people we can be accountable to are ourselves and each other.

To think otherwise is ridiculous.

So you're in court, and the jury convicts you of a crime and the judge sentences you, based on laws ratified ins a parliament comprised of men and women elected by your peers.

For the life of me, I can't see a god or 'higher being' involved there at all.

(January 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote:

Fidel_Castronau Wrote:I see this argument as the reverse of how a theist sees it. I honestly believe that some theists think like this becuase they want to be judged on a narcissistic level. "Look at me [god], look at all the good things I've done in my life".

quite the opposite by personal my experience it would be interesting to have the pre Athiest feelings of those who were once Theists on if this would have described them.

Could you clear that sentence up? I didn't really understand it.

(January 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote:

Fidel_Castronau Wrote:And I read once that pride was a sin.

Well its considered the worse one of the seven deadly sins but pride itself is not the sin it is the root cause of many other sins. The main meaning in the theological sense would be..especially holding self out of proper position toward God.

I literally didn't get any of that, sorry. Not because of the way it was written, just what was written. "One of the worst seven deadly sins but not a sin..." What? Huh?

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(January 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Tick one box to explain the position that you believe the statement "A lack of faith in gods" implies in answer to this statement.

There is a GOD 1) yes 2) no 3)don't know 4) other ** if other please explain..

Ignoring my own personal avatar, which is only there to annoy theists...

An atheist is not claiming that there is or isn't a god, an atheist is claiming that they do not believe that there is a god - a subtle difference, one which you blancmange heads never seem to be able to comprehend.

You do not need "faith" to "not believe" in something which has no evidence.

Yes, we know you need faith to believe in something that has no evidence, but that is your fucking problem not ours.

In fact if you want to be consistent, and if you accept that you need faith to believe in god, then you need "not faith" to "not believe in god".

"Not faith" is not "faith"

(January 4, 2013 at 2:18 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:

(January 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Tick one box to explain the position that you believe the statement "A lack of faith in gods" implies in answer to this statement.

There is a GOD 1) yes 2) no 3)don't know 4) other ** if other please explain.

Agnostic atheist.

I don't know either way but as there's no evidence for any god or gods, I have no reason to believe, in any of them, or their claims.

You have to define and evidence your version of god before I can even begin to take any claims seriously.

(January 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: I thought Theists believe the opposite

Ok.

(January 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Very nice; but in an Athiest world how and who decides what is good/bad
or is that up to each individual. Is there even a universal good/bad or would it all be relative?

Morality is subjective. A 16th century Scottish border town would find certain behaviours completely normal that we would be averse to, and the same is true the opposite way around.

The only people we can be accountable to are ourselves and each other.

To think otherwise is ridiculous.

So you're in court, and the jury convicts you of a crime and the judge sentences you, based on laws ratified ins a parliament comprised of men and women elected by your peers.

For the life of me, I can't see a god or 'higher being' involved there at all.

(January 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: quite the opposite by personal my experience it would be interesting to have the pre Athiest feelings of those who were once Theists on if this would have described them.

Could you clear that sentence up? I didn't really understand it.

(January 4, 2013 at 2:10 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Well its considered the worse one of the seven deadly sins but pride itself is not the sin it is the root cause of many other sins. The main meaning in the theological sense would be..especially holding self out of proper position toward God.

I literally didn't get any of that, sorry. Not because of the way it was written, just what was written. "One of the worst seven deadly sins but not a sin..." What? Huh?

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on the good/bad question you seem to be saying that in an atheist world the terms good or bad is relative and therefore changeable that there is no fixed concept of good or bad.

Theist do not have the Idea look at me i'm so good but rather how can you look at me when compared to you I'm so bad.

Seven Deadly sins is a misnomer they refer to a state of mind rather than the actions so the real sins are the actions or inactions (when action was required) caused by that state of mind.

There is no fixed notion of good or bad.

If you lived life according to the old testament you would be considered a monster in this day and age.

People get their morals from the society around them and as a society we have improved our morals over time.

This is a much better age to live than any that have gone before and much of that is down to the jettisoning of the adherence to the religious texts as a basis for morals.

(January 4, 2013 at 2:53 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: on the good/bad question you seem to be saying that in an atheist world the terms good or bad is relative and therefore changeable that there is no fixed concept of good or bad.

Theist do not have the Idea look at me i'm so good but rather how can you look at me when compared to you I'm so bad.

Seven Deadly sins is a misnomer they refer to a state of mind rather than the actions so the real sins are the actions or inactions (when action was required) caused by that state of mind.

yes, morals are purely subjective to the society in context. There is no objective absolute in moral terms, though some ideas hold more sway through time than others.

I'm also not accusing you being 'bad', so please don't assign me a position I don't hold

(January 4, 2013 at 2:53 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Seven Deadly sins is a misnomer they refer to a state of mind rather than the actions so the real sins are the actions or inactions (when action was required) caused by that state of mind.

So, then coveting thy neighbor's ass is not a sin?