(January 4, 2013 at 8:29 pm)Al-Fatihah Wrote: Yet if a person is used sexually, it causes the most emotional and dramatizing feeling to the person.

I quess most atheists will agree, or even better most people.

(January 4, 2013 at 8:29 pm)Al-Fatihah Wrote: So the law in islam to marry first before sex is to prevent the harmful act of being used sexually. In other words, having sex based on lust, and not love.

But the reality is that people seem to love having sex for lust with or without love, so what's wrong with that?

(January 4, 2013 at 8:29 pm)Al-Fatihah Wrote: Response: Sex is the most intimate embrace between two people. Yet if a person is used sexually, it causes the most emotional and dramatizing feeling to the person. So the law in islam to marry first before sex is to prevent the harmful act of being used sexually. In other words, having sex based on lust, and not love.

To ensure that sex is taking place out of love and not simply out of lust or using one sexually to fulfill one's own desires, then islam allows sexual relations only with the promise to agree to love and protect each other as well in writing.

Yet this Islamic world is full of arranged marriages, where love isn't even a factor at all. My girlfriend and I love each other. Some girl who is the third wife to a man 20 years older than her, whom she doesn't even know, isn't in love with him. If those are the real reason for this prohibition that the Islamic world fails miserably.

The real reason for this ban in Islam or any other religion is that if a religion can control your sex life then they can control you completely. Your sex life is so personal. Would you let your parents control it? Your friends? Then why are you letting your religion?

(January 3, 2013 at 12:58 pm)ThatMuslimGuy Wrote: Insha'allah (God Willing) the next person i have sex with will be my wife. I'm not married but planning to get married hopefully soon. Probs when im over 18 then wont require my parents consent.
Lmao balls like melons .
Sexual desires can be controlled, allot harder in a western society, but can be controlled.
In Islam if you have sexual desires then the best advice is to try and get married. If not then fast as it lowers your sexual desire. However for some people it increases it lol.
Personally i plan to have a wife in the near future.

You should wed someone you love. Marriage is a lot happier that way. Marrying just to be able to have sex... That seems so disingenuous and disrespectful to the woman. Everyone deserves a spouse who will love and respect them as a person.

Quote:Response: Sex is the most intimate embrace between two people. Yet if a person is used sexually, it causes the most emotional and dramatizing feeling to the person. So the law in islam to marry first before sex is to prevent the harmful act of being used sexually. In other words, having sex based on lust, and not love.

To ensure that sex is taking place out of love and not simply out of lust or using one sexually to fulfill one's own desires, then islam allows sexual relations only with the promise to agree to love and protect each other as well in writing.

This sounds very romantic but when you remember that a muslim man can have four wives i have trouble believing that this sort of relationship wouldnt be totally based on using one another. The women for the mans money who can support 4 wives and the man using the women for sex.
But besides that the question was actually why most muslims seem to me at least to not take the rule against sex before marriage seriously.

(January 4, 2013 at 9:25 pm)Dee Dee Ramone Wrote: But the reality is that people seem to love having sex for lust with or without love, so what's wrong with that?

Response: What's wrong is that lust is the idea of having sex to please yourself, not to please your partner, thus using a person sexually. The use of someone sexually leads to the most devistating and emotionally damaging feelings becuase they are being used for sex.

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(January 4, 2013 at 11:53 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Yet this Islamic world is full of arranged marriages, where love isn't even a factor at all. My girlfriend and I love each other. Some girl who is the third wife to a man 20 years older than her, whom she doesn't even know, isn't in love with him. If those are the real reason for this prohibition that the Islamic world fails miserably.

The real reason for this ban in Islam or any other religion is that if a religion can control your sex life then they can control you completely. Your sex life is so personal. Would you let your parents control it? Your friends? Then why are you letting your religion?

Response: There is nothing wrong in having one's sex life controlled when the control is simply to prevent the act of being used sexually. Furthermore, arranged marriages is not an islamic concept, but a cultural concept.

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(January 5, 2013 at 2:30 am)paulpablo Wrote: This sounds very romantic but when you remember that a muslim man can have four wives i have trouble believing that this sort of relationship wouldnt be totally based on using one another. The women for the mans money who can support 4 wives and the man using the women for sex.
But besides that the question was actually why most muslims seem to me at least to not take the rule against sex before marriage seriously.

Response: It is not just a muslim thing not to take the rule against sex before marriage seriously, for all men of all backgrounds do it. And like those who do it, they don't take it seriously because they want the pleasure of sex, without the responsibility of taking care of their spouse as written in a marriage contract.

Regarding 4 wives, the purpose of multiple wives in islam is based on the idea to protect women since men are to be the providers and protectors of women. The rule of 4 wives came at a time when there was no limit to having wives so if it was based on lust, then a limitation would have never been placed. Islam understands that there are more women than men in the world, so the idea of one man marrying another woman would never work to begin with, because there would be thousands of women who can't get husbands. Now if someone decides to take advantage of having one more than one wife simply to have more sex, than I too agree that this is wrong, but that was never the concept of having 4 wives in islam. It was to ensure that all women are able to have a man to love and protect them, especially at a time when men many men would mistreat women as if they were property.

Let's not forget that the command to marry up to 4 wives comes after the command to do so if one can not take care of the orphans and also says that if a person can not be just with more than one wife, then marry only one. This further shows than the concept to marry more than one wife is too love and protect the women who are poor and unprotected like orphans, not for sexual reasons. Notice the rule of also marrying only one, a law that is only stipulated in the scriptures of islam, and not in any other religious scripture.

I was created out of wedlock and my parents were only engaged in a civil non religious marrige when I was born.

And the Old testament clearly outlines that every child which is born out of wedlock is destined for hell.

So all abrahamic religions can kiss my ass!!!

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(January 5, 2013 at 5:08 am)Al-Fatihah Wrote: Response: What's wrong is that lust is the idea of having sex to please yourself, not to please your partner, thus using a person sexually. The use of someone sexually leads to the most devistating and emotionally damaging feelings becuase they are being used for sex.

When I have sex I intend to please my partner, I actualy dont even think that having sex which doesn`t please ones partner is any good.

Using a partner???

I never had non consensual sex.

I guess you are a confused little boy aren`t you?

ISn`T it Saudi Arabia where one can marry a 12 year old girl? I bet that sex is consensual because it`s in acordance with Islam.
So was probably the sex Mohamed had with his 12 year old cousin.

Quote:Response: There is nothing wrong in having one's sex life controlled when the control is simply to prevent the act of being used sexually. Furthermore, arranged marriages is not an islamic concept, but a cultural concept.

One should have Sex! But it Schouldn`t be sexual!

WTF!!!

And do you also propose a bedtime police to check if people have apropriate sexlifes?

Quote:Response: It is not just a muslim thing not to take the rule against sex before marriage seriously, for all men of all backgrounds do it. And like those who do it, they don't take it seriously because they want the pleasure of sex, without the responsibility of taking care of their spouse as written in a marriage contract.

Because sex today doesn`t necerely mean to have a child.

There for pleasure sex is something one can have without marrige.

Quote:Regarding 4 wives, the purpose of multiple wives in islam is based on the idea to protect women since men are to be the providers and protectors of women. The rule of 4 wives came at a time when there was no limit to having wives so if it was based on lust, then a limitation would have never been placed.

Your faith clearly regards woman as very equal

Quote:Islam understands that there are more women than men in the world,

Which is wrong


And the most pittyfull excuse I have ever read.

Quote:so the idea of one man marrying another woman would never work to begin with, because there would be thousands of women who can't get husbands. Now if someone decides to take advantage of having one more than one wife simply to have more sex, than I too agree that this is wrong, but that was never the concept of having 4 wives in islam. It was to ensure that all women are able to have a man to love and protect them, especially at a time when men many men would mistreat women as if they were property.

This is all irrelevant since there aren`T more women than men.

"To ensure that all women are loved"

What about a womans individual right to self determination? So she can chose whom to love by herself?

Quote:Let's not forget that the command to marry up to 4 wives comes after the command to do so if one can not take care of the orphans and also says that if a person can not be just with more than one wife, then marry only one. This further shows than the concept to marry more than one wife is too love and protect the women who are poor and unprotected like orphans, not for sexual reasons. Notice the rule of also marrying only one, a law that is only stipulated in the scriptures of islam, and not in any other religious scripture.

What a sick form of charity!!!

One might aswell offer food to a homeless guy, for the exchange of a blowjob.

If this is what the quoran sais, then it might aswell be a pimps guidline book or a methdealers guidlines to sex and success.

(January 5, 2013 at 5:45 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: When I have sex I intend to please my partner, I actualy dont even think that having sex which doesn`t please ones partner is any good.

Using a partner???

I never had non consensual sex.

I guess you are a confused little boy aren`t you?

ISn`T it Saudi Arabia where one can marry a 12 year old girl? I bet that sex is consensual because it`s in acordance with Islam.
So was probably the sex Mohamed had with his 12 year old cousin.

Response: I never stated anyone had nonconsensual sex. So clearly, you are confused. And muslims are not obligated to do as the "Saudis" do, so your point is pointless.

(January 5, 2013 at 5:45 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: One should have Sex! But it Schouldn`t be sexual!

WTF!!!

And do you also propose a bedtime police to check if people have apropriate sexlifes?

Resonse: No one stated sex is not supposed to be sexual. So you're two for two in your weak strawman attempts. At least you are consistent.

(January 5, 2013 at 5:45 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: Because sex today doesn`t necerely mean to have a child.

There for pleasure sex is something one can have without marrige.

Response: No one said it couldn't. Halfway though my response and you still haven't addressed anything. You're a unique poster.

(January 5, 2013 at 5:45 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: Your faith clearly regards woman as very equal

Al-Fatihah Wrote:Islam understands that there are more women than men in the world

Which is wrong


And the most pittyfull excuse I have ever read.

Response: Yet your weak rebuttal supports evidence to the contrary.

(January 5, 2013 at 5:45 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: This is all irrelevant since there aren`T more women than men.

"To ensure that all women are loved"

What about a womans individual right to self determination? So she can chose whom to love by herself?

Response: Yes. There are more women than men and a woman can choose whom to love her. So your point is as usual, pointless.

(January 5, 2013 at 5:45 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: What a sick form of charity!!!

One might aswell offer food to a homeless guy, for the exchange of a blowjob.

If this is what the quoran sais, then it might aswell be a pimps guidline book or a methdealers guidlines to sex and success.

Response: Only a sick and cold-hearted person would think that taking care of a woman out the kindness of their heart is sick. Says a lot about your ideology, not islam. Thanks for the clarification.

(January 5, 2013 at 6:23 am)Al-Fatihah Wrote: I never stated anyone had nonconsensual sex.

Quote:No one stated sex is not supposed to be sexual.

Quote:No one said it couldn't. Halfway though my response and you still haven't addressed anything.

jet earlier you posted:

Quote:What's wrong is that lust is the idea of having sex to please yourself

Quote:There is nothing wrong in having one's sex life controlled when the control is simply to prevent the act of being used sexually.

Quote: It is not just a muslim thing not to take the rule against sex before marriage seriously

Oh dear.

I guess that makes you a dishonest poster.

(January 5, 2013 at 5:45 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: Your faith clearly regards woman as very equal



Which is wrong


And the most pittyfull excuse I have ever read.

Quote:Response: Yet your weak rebuttal supports evidence to the contrary.

You have replied by quoting my original post, by editing it to have a meaning it didn`t have in it`s original form!

This is against the forum rules!

You have 2 hours to edit your post or I will report you!

Quote: Yes. There are more women than men and a woman can choose whom to love her. So your point is as usual, pointless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio

Human sex ratio clearly states that there are 105 men for 100 women on average.

FACTS!

Quote:Response: Only a sick and cold-hearted person would think that taking care of a woman out the kindness of their heart is sick. Says a lot about your ideology, not islam. Thanks for the clarification.

Are you that thick!

The requirement for charity being that one has to marry the impoverished person is the part I call sick.

Need a drawing!?

you claim that the qurans intentions are to make sure women are taken care of which i cant argue with, arguing about the intentions of a 1500 year old book which is written in a language i cant speak is beyond me.
And in islamic society where polygamy is acceptable youre right that the man needs to prove he has enough money in these circumstances to look after the women.
But the more we speak about men having enough money to afford 4 wives the more shallow it seems to me.
And we are talking about traditions from a book which definitely doesnt view women as equal, im almost certain even muslims with the wildest imaginations couldnt argue against that. A womans testimony is worth less in court, it says god created women less than men and that men can admonish and beat women if they fear rebelion from them.
But this thread really isnt here to argue about all that anyway, i was more hoping to get to know what individual muslim experiences are regarding this, like i said most of the muslims i know or know of either dont have the will power to not have sex or they just dont take the rule seriously, but whats your experience? for example, did you lose your virginity to your wife? dont you ever feel temptation?
i was looking for a bit more than ridged scholarly answers

(January 5, 2013 at 12:06 am)Annik Wrote:

(January 3, 2013 at 12:58 pm)ThatMuslimGuy Wrote: Insha'allah (God Willing) the next person i have sex with will be my wife. I'm not married but planning to get married hopefully soon. Probs when im over 18 then wont require my parents consent.
Lmao balls like melons .
Sexual desires can be controlled, allot harder in a western society, but can be controlled.
In Islam if you have sexual desires then the best advice is to try and get married. If not then fast as it lowers your sexual desire. However for some people it increases it lol.
Personally i plan to have a wife in the near future.

You should wed someone you love. Marriage is a lot happier that way. Marrying just to be able to have sex... That seems so disingenuous and disrespectful to the woman. Everyone deserves a spouse who will love and respect them as a person.

I apologize if it came across that way. Obv i am going to marry the person to love. I'm not marrying her to just have sex.

"Everyone deserves a spouse who will love and respect them as a person."
I 100% agree.