I haven't the foggiest who this guy is*, but looky what I found (about four years ago). Try this on for size Master Squire Edgar Allan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-6kUexV55w

Quote:As I alluded to in my post to which you responded, I think such a concept, however it is imagined, is the very definition of unfair. A chosen minority, in some definitions predetermined, gets the golden prize of eternal paradise while the overwhelming majority of humans who ever lived and who ever will live are condemned, or at least excluded even from consideration, merely on the basis of who believes and who doesn't? How can that not be unfair?

Let me put it another way. If I were to call someone a worthless, subhuman piece of scum who should crawl away somewhere and die, I'd rightly be considered an arsehole at the very least. However, if I were to tell that person that I think they deserve to go to Hell, what then? My opinion of them in both cases would be the same, to all intents and purposes.

Indeed it is unfair, if we were speaking about a human to human judgement, it is unfair (hence ; islam prohibits death by fire or execution by burning). So the concept of hell, even to us humans, is unfair.

But when god creates such place, it's different. Let me put it to you this way : the more you take blessings, the more penalty will increase.

In today's world for example, being a russian (for example) under the formal USSR, you received the blessings of that union (an army to stand for you, food, shelter, job, education ...etc).

so when you betray that country of yours, a death sentence is not "unfair". People throughout history never tolerated treason, and it's specifically for this reason : we gave you everything, you gave us a backstab.

Humans have a lot of blessings from god, including the human body itself, including free thinking.

and the problem is, humans deny god, and still eat the food he created, use the sight he gave, and enjoy life, enjoying his creation but denying him.

when I think about..it's justified, instead of living in god's blessing, he will abandon you.

I can distill your entire response down to just two words:

Special pleading.

(January 21, 2013 at 12:11 pm)AtlasS Wrote: In today's world for example, being a russian (for example) under the formal USSR, you received the blessings of that union (an army to stand for you, food, shelter, job, education ...etc).

so when you betray that country of yours, a death sentence is not "unfair". People throughout history never tolerated treason, and it's specifically for this reason : we gave you everything, you gave us a backstab.

How is it fair? You don't get to choose when, where and what situation you are born into.

(January 21, 2013 at 12:11 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Humans have a lot of blessings from god, including the human body itself, including free thinking.

and the problem is, humans deny god, and still eat the food he created, use the sight he gave, and enjoy life, enjoying his creation but denying him.

when I think about..it's justified, instead of living in god's blessing, he will abandon you.

Well I never agreed or asked for any of this. So fuck god.

(January 22, 2013 at 8:11 am)Insanity x Wrote:

(January 21, 2013 at 12:11 pm)AtlasS Wrote: In today's world for example, being a russian (for example) under the formal USSR, you received the blessings of that union (an army to stand for you, food, shelter, job, education ...etc).

so when you betray that country of yours, a death sentence is not "unfair". People throughout history never tolerated treason, and it's specifically for this reason : we gave you everything, you gave us a backstab.

How is it fair? You don't get to choose when, where and what situation you are born into.

(January 21, 2013 at 12:11 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Humans have a lot of blessings from god, including the human body itself, including free thinking.

and the problem is, humans deny god, and still eat the food he created, use the sight he gave, and enjoy life, enjoying his creation but denying him.

when I think about..it's justified, instead of living in god's blessing, he will abandon you.

Well I never agreed or asked for any of this. So fuck god.

If that person thinks its unfair to be russian for example under the soviets, he should escape & refuse any food, drink or money from that country, if he hated it & refused to serve in it.

And here's the point.

If you enjoy anything on this earth, then you want this life. There is also some talk between islamic scholars which states that god already gave people the choice ; and every human is here by his/her own demand. Nobody is forced.

In the quran, god says that he offered the "Secretariats" on other creations and they refused to take it, but humans did, they accepted. Each and everyone.


Ta! Come visit again! Or I'll pluck out your eyes, ha ha ha!
Sheogorath said that :p Elder scrolls fans are freakin everywhere

(January 22, 2013 at 9:52 am)AtlasS Wrote: If that person thinks its unfair to be russian for example under the soviets, he should escape & refuse any food, drink or money from that country, if he hated it & refused to serve in it.

So I should stop eating and die?

(January 22, 2013 at 9:52 am)AtlasS Wrote: And here's the point.

If you enjoy anything on this earth, then you want this life. There is also some talk between islamic scholars which states that god already gave people the choice ; and every human is here by his/her own demand. Nobody is forced.

Then god's an idiot for making me forget. Either way the rules are absurd and cruel.

(January 22, 2013 at 9:52 am)AtlasS Wrote: In the quran, god says that he offered the "Secretariats" on other creations and they refused to take it, but humans did, they accepted. Each and everyone.

Well I want to see my contract then. What idiot god takes away my memory of me agreeing to do something that if I get wrong I can be tortured for?

And if as I predict you claim the quran is the contract then thats clearly BS. I was brought up in a way that I never even saw a quran till after I left school. How should I differentiate between that and the bible that both offer me a bullshit deal.

Is there some kind of alternative company I can negotiate a better deal with? Maybe I could move to pay as you go..

(January 22, 2013 at 9:52 am)AtlasS Wrote: Ta! Come visit again! Or I'll pluck out your eyes, ha ha ha!
Sheogorath said that :p Elder scrolls fans are freakin everywhere

Quote:So I should stop eating and die?

Sadly, yes. stop using your senses, "put a blindfold over your eyes, don't eat, don't drink, don't move", call god and tell him (finish me, I don't want this life). One of god's names is the just & the merciful, a just & merciful god would understand what you want.

I truly think that nobody is going to do that, which proves that my theory about humans, loving life, is not wrong after all.
//

Quote:Then god's an idiot for making me forget. Either way the rules are absurd and cruel.

You didn't totally forget, there is always that small part of you who still believes in that. But humans choose to hide it.

Almost every human on the planet thought about god in a way or another. The behavior of the ancient nations proves that ; most of them had a religion, if not all (ancient egypt, babylon ...even rome).

Atheists "kill" that little voice inside them.

//

Quote:Well I want to see my contract then. What idiot god takes away my memory of me agreeing to do something that if I get wrong I can be tortured for?
And if as I predict you claim the quran is the contract then thats clearly BS. I was brought up in a way that I never even saw a quran till after I left school. How should I differentiate between that and the bible that both offer me a bullshit deal.
Is there some kind of alternative company I can negotiate a better deal with? Maybe I could move to pay as you go..

If a person had a good insight, he would now that it's the right thing. I said a lot, a thing with humans is different with god.

The right way is to know that a creator would be supreme, divine & only one.

With that faith alone, if you didn't hear about the Quran, you're kinda in the safe side, because you would start to search & look for a religion with one divine god only.

(January 22, 2013 at 2:35 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Sadly, yes. stop using your senses, "put a blindfold over your eyes, don't eat, don't drink, don't move", call god and tell him (finish me, I don't want this life). One of god's names is the just & the merciful, a just & merciful god would understand what you want.

I'd be offended but these kinds of things just don't surprise me anymore.

(January 22, 2013 at 2:35 pm)AtlasS Wrote: I truly think that nobody is going to do that, which proves that my theory about humans, loving life, is not wrong after all.
//

Not all of them considering people do kill themselves.

(January 22, 2013 at 2:35 pm)AtlasS Wrote: You didn't totally forget, there is always that small part of you who still believes in that. But humans choose to hide it.

Almost every human on the planet thought about god in a way or another. The behavior of the ancient nations proves that ; most of them had a religion, if not all (ancient egypt, babylon ...even rome).

Well other than when I'm on here. Which granted is very often sometimes. It really doesn't cross my mind. I occasionally hear something and think "Thats stupid" but other than that.

(January 22, 2013 at 2:35 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Atheists "kill" that little voice inside them.

Really? I didn't even think about god or gods until I had to pray in primary school. Even then I was meant to be talking to the christian one.

(January 22, 2013 at 2:35 pm)AtlasS Wrote: If a person had a good insight, he would now that it's the right thing. I said a lot, a thing with humans is different with god.

The right way is to know that a creator would be supreme, divine & only one.

With that faith alone, if you didn't hear about the Quran, you're kinda in the safe side, because you would start to search & look for a religion with one divine god only.

Okay this whole bit made no sense. Either re-write or elaborate.

(January 20, 2013 at 9:34 pm)AtlasS Wrote: The million dollar question. Yet, many religious people (if not even all) failed to justify why the creation of hell is justified in the first place.

Islam for example, states that god created everything for a reason, a righteous,100% justified reason, hence one of god's name in islam is "the just".

And I present an answer, obtained from studying the quran for some time.

One of the biggest argues of atheist against islam, is odds. The world was created by an odd action caused a big bang, then everything else, including human existence was an odd, evolution of a primary creature.

Hell, is exactly the same as atheist believe : odds.

On earth, the climate is good, humans can eat, humans have obvious superiority over other creature, all the odds are with humans to build, live & have fun.

On hell, it's the negation of that.

God gives people who didn't believe in his creation & denied, he gives them exactly what they wanted : a random place.

Climate ? well on earth, it was cool, bearable. You said it was an odd ! okay ! what are the odds, of the sun being too close ?? you'll burn right ? but wait ! you said it was an odd ?? then, try this one odd : you're created (randomly) on the sun ! yaaaay !

food ? well on earth, it was nice, tasty, gives you life & energy, but you said it was and odd ! okay, try another odd : food is burning, it's not tasty !

and so on.

if you followed the description of hell in the quran, it's the negation of earth, in every tiny detail.

from my point of view, it makes total sense.. if you denied the blessing of your parents for example, then it's better for you to leave the house, and not to cry from the cold & the life of poverty.

god just states to humans, that without him, the world would be just like hell (mostly because of the stars getting so close to the land, if it has no rotational system (hence, the earth is the one who rotates around the sun)).

Most Jewish traditions do not accept hell as a reality. However, the concept is not limited to the god/s of Abraham. I visited a museum in Japan that depicted the tyranny and oppression of Japan and in it were depictions of their concepts of a "hell" as well.

People falsely think that the concept of hell is new in human history or limited to the modern monotheistic gods.

Fear of eternal torture is not a new concept to humanity because of modern monotheism.

Prior polytheism also had it's concepts of eternal revenge. It really stems from real evolution in our human behavior of "in group" vs "out group" psychology. Humans like to think that their local club will defeat evil and win the day.

Quote:I'd be offended but these kinds of things just don't surprise me anymore.

: )

Quote:Not all of them considering people do kill themselves.

The will is what matters. If your suicide has the same story of the one in adam's song (blink 182) then you didn't kill yourself for the reason above, it really varies.

Quote:Well other than when I'm on here. Which granted is very often sometimes. It really doesn't cross my mind. I occasionally hear something and think "Thats stupid" but other than that.

That subliminal voice is exactly what I'm talking about. Even if it was occasional & quiet.

Quote:Really? I didn't even think about god or gods until I had to pray in primary school. Even then I was meant to be talking to the christian one.

Christianity would repel anybody. But you just mentioned up there that you had thoughts, by saying (it's stupid) you're killing it.

Why not try to say (what if) ? what if is always a good exercise for the mind.

Quote:Okay this whole bit made no sense. Either re-write or elaborate.

lol, yeah it came up weird, let me explain.

You said the forgetting that acceptance is an idiotic thing. But it's the right thing to do, to know who is willing to believe & who isn't.

If people saw heaven, or angles, they would believe right away. That's not the goal.

The goal is to conclude it by yourself. Reaching that conclusion means that you cared.

You cared to do the right thing, you cared to know if your existence has a goal or not.

So for me, it's not like a contract & a deal. I -personally- believe, because I care to know what the truth is.

If there is a god, who created me, then I would like to thank him for what he gave me, as simple as that.

now that's what I'm talking about..

You were forced to forget that choice, in order to see what your action would be like.

---

(January 22, 2013 at 2:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 20, 2013 at 9:34 pm)AtlasS Wrote: The million dollar question. Yet, many religious people (if not even all) failed to justify why the creation of hell is justified in the first place.

Islam for example, states that god created everything for a reason, a righteous,100% justified reason, hence one of god's name in islam is "the just".

And I present an answer, obtained from studying the quran for some time.

One of the biggest argues of atheist against islam, is odds. The world was created by an odd action caused a big bang, then everything else, including human existence was an odd, evolution of a primary creature.

Hell, is exactly the same as atheist believe : odds.

On earth, the climate is good, humans can eat, humans have obvious superiority over other creature, all the odds are with humans to build, live & have fun.

On hell, it's the negation of that.

God gives people who didn't believe in his creation & denied, he gives them exactly what they wanted : a random place.

Climate ? well on earth, it was cool, bearable. You said it was an odd ! okay ! what are the odds, of the sun being too close ?? you'll burn right ? but wait ! you said it was an odd ?? then, try this one odd : you're created (randomly) on the sun ! yaaaay !

food ? well on earth, it was nice, tasty, gives you life & energy, but you said it was and odd ! okay, try another odd : food is burning, it's not tasty !

and so on.

if you followed the description of hell in the quran, it's the negation of earth, in every tiny detail.

from my point of view, it makes total sense.. if you denied the blessing of your parents for example, then it's better for you to leave the house, and not to cry from the cold & the life of poverty.

god just states to humans, that without him, the world would be just like hell (mostly because of the stars getting so close to the land, if it has no rotational system (hence, the earth is the one who rotates around the sun)).

Most Jewish traditions do not accept hell as a reality. However, the concept is not limited to the god/s of Abraham. I visited a museum in Japan that depicted the tyranny and oppression of Japan and in it were depictions of their concepts of a "hell" as well.

People falsely think that the concept of hell is new in human history or limited to the modern monotheistic gods.

Fear of eternal torture is not a new concept to humanity because of modern monotheism.

Prior polytheism also had it's concepts of eternal revenge. It really stems from real evolution in our human behavior of "in group" vs "out group" psychology. Humans like to think that their local club will defeat evil and win the day.

Islam states that a lot of messengers came since the dawn of time.

So the concept of hell, is wild spread in every civilization because simply, it's based on a real place.

That's why all ancient gods (despite the religion) most probably had angels, the concept of a god itself came from the ancient prophets.

While reading the quran, I found out that christianity is not a new thing. Ancient civilizations also took the message of some prophets, believed in it, changed it with time, produced a new religion based on many gods,not just one.