@Drich

Your speculation has no traction against the evidence within the writings that suggest they were written centuries after Moses' time. It debunks any sort of lead author/scribe/contributor theory in the blink of an eye unfortunately, leaving us with the conclusion that some scribes eventually wrote down the traditions after centuries. That's what scholarship tells us; 5 authors are responsible for the Pentateuch and, given the internal evidence, they lived centuries after Moses.

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(January 29, 2013 at 2:58 pm)catfish Wrote:

(January 29, 2013 at 11:54 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Let's cut to the chase; you're a Christian and you admit the Bible is mostly written by anonymous authors, it has been heavily edited, the NT was cherry picked into existence and there are countless contradictions. Am I right so far?

Yes, let's...

Once you either correct your error or prove that "every Christian" thinks otherwise, I'll answer your deflection...
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When you can't prove your religion to be true, at least try and win any trivial debate, right?

Look, I didn't mean it in an absolute way, but rather as in the majority here are fundamentalists. Have you never stated something in that manner before?

WE already know that the old testament was not written down until about 450 BCE - long after the fairy tales in it were created - and adapted from other religions. That is already established in the Talmud.

Now - your statement about moses assumes something - moses was a real person.

When you remove religious scripture from the equation - there is no evidence he existed and far more evidence that he and his so called accomplishments are fairy tales.

There exists no evidence that the Israelites existed at all at the supposed time of Moses. THe earliest mention of the Israelites is from about 1209 BCE - long after the supposed events of moses. WE have complete lists of people who were in bondage to Egypt - that do not include the Israelites although they do include Canaanites - and these are written in stone.

THere is no evidence of a million people wandering through the Israeli desert - Jericho did not exist at the time of the Joshua bible story.

The Israelites of History were a tribal culture in the mountains - Jerusalem was NO majestic city - and they were never world leaders in any way - this is all nonsense.

(January 29, 2013 at 7:15 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: @Drich

Your speculation has no traction against the evidence within the writings that suggest they were written centuries after Moses' time. It debunks any sort of lead author/scribe/contributor theory in the blink of an eye unfortunately, leaving us with the conclusion that some scribes eventually wrote down the traditions after centuries. That's what scholarship tells us; 5 authors are responsible for the Pentateuch and, given the internal evidence, they lived centuries after Moses.

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(January 29, 2013 at 2:58 pm)catfish Wrote: Yes, let's...

Once you either correct your error or prove that "every Christian" thinks otherwise, I'll answer your deflection...
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When you can't prove your religion to be true, at least try and win any trivial debate, right?

And when you're shown a point in which you're incorrect, build a strawman and deflect away from the issue, huh?
I'm not trying to prove "my religion" as true, now am I? (I now require an answer to this before I address your earlier deflection)
You know..., I'm starting to get tired of saying this to sooo many people, but pay attention to what I write and NOT what you imagine, OK?

(January 29, 2013 at 7:15 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Look, I didn't mean it in an absolute way, but rather as in the majority here are fundamentalists. Have you never stated something in that manner before?

I've done it a few times, but I don't make fucking excuses for it. I acknowledge my mistake and move on. I don't need to be right all the time, so being wrong doesn't bother me as much as it appears to bother you. I tend to think my words are clear and concise, but obviously some people get confused. Perhaps some are not used to this method and don't recognise it or perhaps they do and just don't care.
So you now move the goalposts and claim "majority"... I think this subject would make a good thread because I actually think that statement is incorrect too. Shall we make a poll and find out, or would being wrong about that too cause your brain too much grief?

Patiently awaiting your continued deflection...
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Catfish... it was a freaking exaggeration on my part when I said "everyone"! You're not the centre of the world and, quite frankly, I couldn't give a shit about your special beliefs.

Moving on.

Like I said all well educated Christians will be aware that Moses didn't write the Pentateuch himself but it doesn't disprove the existence of God or Jesus freeing humanity from it's sin through Gods gift of grace or anything like that nature.

(January 30, 2013 at 4:05 am)Zone Wrote: Like I said all well educated Christians will be aware that Moses didn't write the Pentateuch himself but it doesn't disprove the existence of God or Jesus freeing humanity from it's sin through Gods gift of grace or anything like that nature.

Correct, it doesn't ultimately disprove God. All it does is it knocks the Bible off the pedestal and puts it in line with all the rest of the hardly credible fairy tales of the rest of the world. The end result is that the Christian ends up looking like a fool defending the faith their country of origin inherited for whatever trivial reason.

It may put the Old Testament in line with the Hindu Vedas or something like that but I don't think that's going to seriously dent anyones faith in it.

(January 30, 2013 at 4:43 am)Zone Wrote: It may put the Old Testament in line with the Hindu Vedas or something like that but I don't think that's going to seriously dent anyones faith in it.

Once they realise what I wrote in the "Revelation" section they should be worried. In this case, Moses didn't write anything. What does that leave us with? Something that's nowhere near a testimony of personal revelations, but rather, pure hearsay. What I'm left wondering is this: why does the believer surrender their life to dubious hearsay? What a shocking and poorly thought out choice that is to lead your life according to tribal hearsay about events that never happened.

Krishna didn't write any of the Vedas himself but that doesn't bother anyone in India. It can be viewed as a holy book inspired through the spirit of God rather than a straightforward book of literal history right the way through. We know from archaeological digs that the Exodous didn't happen as described for instance nor did the conquests of Joshua it was a much more gradual process of cultural assimilation. Someone like William Lane Craig knows about all this and it doesn't give him any sleepless nights at all.

(January 30, 2013 at 4:57 am)FallentoReason Wrote: What I'm left wondering is this: why does the believer surrender their life to dubious hearsay? What a shocking and poorly thought out choice that is to lead your life according to tribal hearsay about events that never happened.

Here we go again...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm a "believer" and I have NEVER fallen for any of the crap that's in the Bible...
I'm sorry that so many people did though. I guess it's peer pressure at it worse in most cases. "Don't do drugs just because your friends do them, but make damn sure that you believe anyone the church says is evil will be tortured by an ever-loving god for eternity..."
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