(February 7, 2013 at 10:54 am)Drich Wrote: Sincerity has never once entered into a response when someone asks "why did I not find, when I asked."

My only response to that question is to inturn ask: Did you do it God's way? or did you do it your way?

Doesn't it bother you that your response to the problem Cinjin mentioned was to literally play into that exact problem as precisely as possible?

Quote:Because we want to know God.

I only want to know the truth, nothing more. Regardless of what that is.

Quote:says who?? Your peers? Those who taught you how to think?? The 'great minds' you look up to?? Do you see the irony yet???

Well... says me? Can you explain to me what faith in general would be? What would having faith that isn't assigned to anything feel like, and how would you express it? The statement "I have faith" means very little on its own, unless you attach a target to that faith. When you say "I have faith" the implied second part of that sentence is "in god."

There's no irony here, I just can't envision a method by which faith could exist without a thing to have faith in. If you can, please enlighten me.

Try this Esquilax...

Romans 12:3
King James Version (KJV)

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Looks like according to the text, all faith is distributed by God...


John 6:44
King James Version (KJV)

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


Again, God seems to be the one in control of a person's faith...
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(February 7, 2013 at 11:32 am)catfish Wrote: Try this Esquilax...

Romans 12:3
King James Version (KJV)

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Looks like according to the text, all faith is distributed by God...


John 6:44
King James Version (KJV)

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


Again, God seems to be the one in control of a person's faith...
.

Okay, sweet. So my lack of faith is divinely designed. Not only that, but if we take this as true, then Drich's assertion that any failure to find god via faith is a personal failure is also wrong. I can dig it.

Don't worry though, I'm sure he has a "logical" explanation for your lack of faith, they all do...
.

(February 7, 2013 at 11:12 am)Esquilax Wrote: Doesn't it bother you that your response to the problem Cinjin mentioned was to literally play into that exact problem as precisely as possible?

Explain. Cinjin outlined a problem of not having enough faith. or not beliving strongly enough. I pointed to the fact that the strength of your efforts are not being measured here. what is, is you ablity to listen and follow directions.

Quote:I only want to know the truth, nothing more. Regardless of what that is.

Why?

Quote:Well... says me? Can you explain to me what faith in general would be? What would having faith that isn't assigned to anything feel like, and how would you express it?

With As Christ points out One must have enough 'faith' to simply Ask seek and knock as outlined in Luke 11.

Quote:The statement "I have faith" means very little on its own, unless you attach a target to that faith. When you say "I have faith" the implied second part of that sentence is "in god."

A statement of faith means nothing. The proper identification of faith can only be done through action.

Quote:There's no irony here, I just can't envision a method by which faith could exist without a thing to have faith in. If you can, please enlighten me.

Maybe because you persume too much. Your faith only as to be deep enough for you to ask, Seek, and knock for the truth you claim you want. Faith is simple trust, whether you put that trust completely in science and your education/how you were taught to think, or if you can find a mustard seeds worth to look where God told you to look, it all stems from the same FAITH.

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(February 7, 2013 at 11:50 am)catfish Wrote: Don't worry though, I'm sure he has a "logical" explanation for your lack of faith, they all do...
.

No one as a lack of 'faith' we all have faith in something. It is a matter of allocation of said faith that is the issue.

(February 7, 2013 at 10:54 am)Drich Wrote:

(February 7, 2013 at 3:35 am)Cinjin Wrote: You just answered Esquilax's question with both a No and a Yes.

No I did not.

The English language says you did. Regardless of all that extra greasy sophistry you wrote about faith & belief.

Drich Wrote:

Cinjin Wrote:The problem with your ridiculous 'seek and ye shall find' method of finding proof is of course, that many atheists were former christians who found nothing but blow hards like you. Your worn out cliche of a response is always the same: "You weren't really a true christian ... you weren't looking hard enough ... you didn't really believe." It's packaged-up theological fucktardery. You spin your words in circles in an effort to produce proof that is nothing more than the fuzzy feelings of a gullible half-wit.

Sincerity has never once entered into a response when someone asks "why did I not find, when I asked."

Absurd statement. You cannot possibly prove or back up that assertion. Do you read minds? Do you read the minds of every person on earth? Do you alone somehow possess the powers of knowing when someone is being sincere?

Quote:My only response to that question is to inturn ask: Did you do it God's way? or did you do it your way?

That question has no relevance, as the answer will only be met with your filthy excuses. The bible verse about seeking does not offer a disclaimer of how to actually seek. You are the only slimy apologist putting qualifications on seeking god. Furthermore, how much of a first class A-hole is god that you have to also know the secret handshake, get the decoder ring and answer the seven riddles. Excuse after excuse. You have an endless supply of horse shit.

Quote:If you tell you boy to clean his room before he does "X" with his friends, do you let him do "X" if he 'cleans' to his standard by shoving everything under the bed? Or do you make him do things your way?

Stupid analogy. Cleaning your room does not compare to saving ones eternal soul and it's insulting to the intelligence to even refute that turd you just laid. You're basically saying your god is an anal fucktard more concerned about pithy, pointless regulations.

Quote:If God allows you to half ass your way into belief, then doesn't it stand to reason that you will half ass your way into everything else concerning him? God's standards are absolute and unchanging, and we still get 'luke warm' believers. If God just let us do our own thing then it would be next to impossiable for any of us to establish the quality of relationship He is looking for and offering. Dooming all of us to Hell.

The only thing you've succeed in saying with this entire post is that your god begrudgingly saves you. He doesn't actually want to, he just sorta HAS to and only if you jump through every hoop absolutely perfectly. It's all so obviously phony. How can you possibly take this shit seriously. It's absolutely ludicrous.

(February 7, 2013 at 1:06 am)Drich Wrote: Not according to Christ. He said all one needs is the faith the size of a mustard seed, and God will move whatever is keeping you from belief if you simply Ask Him to.

In short you need just enough to start the ball rolling.

That's odd. Many years ago, I was a Christian. I wasn't raised a Christian, my parents were strictly secular - I came to it of my own accord when I was a young man. I had faith. I set aside my skepticism. I wanted to live in God's presence and glorify him.

I earnestly and humbly sought God, under the guidance of both my pastor and prayer group leader. They assured me, as you do, that if I did as as instructed in the bible (A/S/K), that I would find God as they had.

I did so for years, to the best of my ability. I found nothing.

I call bullshit.

(February 7, 2013 at 10:16 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: That's odd. Many years ago, I was a Christian. I wasn't raised a Christian, my parents were strictly secular - I came to it of my own accord when I was a young man. I had faith. I set aside my skepticism. I wanted to live in God's presence and glorify him.

I earnestly and humbly sought God, under the guidance of both my pastor and prayer group leader. They assured me, as you do, that if I did as as instructed in the bible (A/S/K), that I would find God as they had.

I did so for years, to the best of my ability. I found nothing.

I call bullshit.

Same here CD. 20 Years I tried to figure out why god was only talking to 3 or 4 of the entire congregation. I wanted so much to understand.
I second your bullshit and raise you a , "get fucked."

Oh don't worry. If you don't find god in this life, you'll know when you're dead!

Drich Wrote:Sincerity has never once entered into a response when someone asks "why did I not find, when I asked."

Cinjin Wrote:Absurd statement. You cannot possibly prove or back up that assertion. Do you read minds? Do you read the minds of every person on earth? Do you alone somehow possess the powers of knowing when someone is being sincere?

What I was saying was, That someone sincerity has nothing to do with whether or not they followed the directions of Christ.

Again one can be 100% genuine in their personal efforts, but still not follow the directions Christ Gave us. Hence the following response:

Quote:My only response to that question is to inturn ask: Did you do it God's way? or did you do it your way?

Quote:That question has no relevance, as the answer will only be met with your filthy excuses.

It has 'no relevance' because you appearently do not understand the arguement.

Quote: The bible verse about seeking does not offer a disclaimer of how to actually seek.

Not true, Read the story again. The Neighbor in Chirst story 'sought' with a persistent desperation.

Quote:You are the only slimy apologist putting qualifications on seeking god.

I have given examples of what seeking looks like, in the end people seek with what they have avaiable. That's the thing about persistent desperation, it has one do whatever it takes to obtain one's goal.

Quote:Furthermore, how much of a first class A-hole is god that you have to also know the secret handshake, get the decoder ring and answer the seven riddles. Excuse after excuse. You have an endless supply of horse shit.

lol, you are so dramatic.
God wants you to ask Him to open your Eyes, so you can see Him, Your ears so you can Hear him your Heart so you can feel love for Him and yes your mind so you can make sense of everything you will be bombarded with when you learn to see hear and feel for the first times.
He wants you to do whatever is in your power to make that happen. For most it means studies in forums lke this, and yes eventually church, but these are not thing that have to be done in a certain order or a certain way. He wants you to simply make the best effort you can to know Him and not a method or a mindless pattern of empty worship.
Then He simply asks that we do these things until, He mets us.

what is so hard about that?
Christ even illustrated this whole precept in a simple story. In it, the story demonstrates that we have this A/S/K ablity already programed into us, and we do it all the time when we want something that can only be given to us by another. God wants us to take this base instinct and apply it to Him.

Quote:Stupid analogy.

I would most likly try and dismiss it as well by calling it or the author stupid, if I could not address it directly either.

Quote: Cleaning your room does not compare to saving ones eternal soul and it's insulting to the intelligence to even refute that turd you just laid.

lol, but a story about a neighbor wanting bread from a sleeping neighbor is better? Like it or not the key to your 'proof' is indeed found in that story just like God is not going to reward a half assed effort if you have the oppertunity to do more. (wow that one hit close to home)

Quote:You're basically saying your god is an anal fucktard more concerned about pithy, pointless regulations.

What is the other option? letting the inmates run free? rewarding undesirable behaivor with the bounty of Heaven? If you are a good parent and will not let your kid get away with similar behavior, then how much More is God to hold us responsiable to the one thing He has asked us to do?

Quote:The only thing you've succeed in saying with this entire post is that your god begrudgingly saves you. He doesn't actually want to, he just sorta HAS to and only if you jump through every hoop absolutely perfectly.

How so? recap for me, because i do not see what you do.

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(February 7, 2013 at 10:16 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(February 7, 2013 at 1:06 am)Drich Wrote: Not according to Christ. He said all one needs is the faith the size of a mustard seed, and God will move whatever is keeping you from belief if you simply Ask Him to.

In short you need just enough to start the ball rolling.

That's odd. Many years ago, I was a Christian. I wasn't raised a Christian, my parents were strictly secular - I came to it of my own accord when I was a young man. I had faith. I set aside my skepticism. I wanted to live in God's presence and glorify him.

I earnestly and humbly sought God, under the guidance of both my pastor and prayer group leader. They assured me, as you do, that if I did as as instructed in the bible (A/S/K), that I would find God as they had.

I did so for years, to the best of my ability. I found nothing.

I call bullshit.

Did you knock?(Did you repeat your effort) Did God illuminate any unrepentant sins in your life that kept you from God? are you still knocking?

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(February 7, 2013 at 10:31 pm)Cinjin Wrote:

(February 7, 2013 at 10:16 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: That's odd. Many years ago, I was a Christian. I wasn't raised a Christian, my parents were strictly secular - I came to it of my own accord when I was a young man. I had faith. I set aside my skepticism. I wanted to live in God's presence and glorify him.

I earnestly and humbly sought God, under the guidance of both my pastor and prayer group leader. They assured me, as you do, that if I did as as instructed in the bible (A/S/K), that I would find God as they had.

I did so for years, to the best of my ability. I found nothing.

I call bullshit.

Same here CD. 20 Years I tried to figure out why god was only talking to 3 or 4 of the entire congregation. I wanted so much to understand.
I second your bullshit and raise you a , "get fucked."

You know if God stoped going to your church it means you don't have to go to that one either.