(February 7, 2013 at 3:06 pm)Minimalist Wrote: He was murdered in jail and I think a parole board hearing was the least of his problems.

But in checking the sentence I found this tidbit....

Quote:Dahmer served his time at the Columbia Correctional Institution in Portage, Wisconsin, where he ultimately declared himself a born-again Christian. Roy Ratcliff, a local preacher from the Churches of Christ, met with Dahmer and agreed to baptize him.

And you know what. I bet Pappy Jesus forgave him and now his sorry ass is sitting in fucking heaven.

I realize. There are whispers that Dahmer might've set up the murder himself (he wasn't supposed to be around the guy who stabbed him). However, this is a man who can lie, cheat, and flatter his way into and out of everything (except overwhelming evidence). I don't trust most claims of finding religion from organized killers. It's probably a ploy. They don't feel remorse over their actions, they feel remorse at getting caught. "Finding religion" is just a way to make himself more likeable and put him in a better position to manipulate people.

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(February 7, 2013 at 3:14 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Well, I see a desperate man trying to escape death. Read about serial killers (especially atheists, oah wait : all of them were atheists !!!! ), they don't apologize, they think that what they do is justified.

Except for the ones that have religious delusions right? Or the ones that thought they were god? Or the ones they claimed to worship Satan? Sweeping, false accusation.

(February 7, 2013 at 2:42 pm)AtlasS Wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer

Nothing here, just practicing my propaganda skills, I'm learning from atheists how to do that
It is indeed that he, Jeffery, was encouraged to do his crime because of atheism :

"if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?"- Jeffrey Dahmer

Don't you just notice that the most serial killers were atheists ?

You know,.... this is the kind of shit which really outrages me.

Do you really want to go through a list of people who did horrible things to conclude out of these peoples faith wo was the most horrible and to then further conclude which faith leads to horrible things?

I personaly watched live on TV how 19 muslims flew planes into skyscrapers and the pentagon. And unlike your serial killer who knew that what he was doing was wrong and would have consequences.
These 19 people were convinced that they were doing the right thing.

All members of my family who were members of the SA and the NSDAP were devout catholics up to their demise at old age or somewhere arround what use to be Stalingrad. Hitler himself was a roman catholic.

And there also religious people whom I admire and who`s work I admire, such as Joachim Gauk and Theo Van Gogh.

This entire way of trying to pin point down points which could possible criminalise a specific faith or non faith just reeks of dishonesty and childish finger pointing.

I am an individual, I made the decision to be an atheist and I am in no way connected to any atheist who commited a crime against humanity on the basis of their own personal decisions.

Annik ,The Germans are coming, and all fellow serial killer atheists

I was trying to make a point here, I think any religious person would understand it by now.. don't take personal crimes & throw them on religions & faiths, even if the person took the decision based on his/her faith.

Jeffrey Dahmer was insane, all serial killers are. The human nature (despite religion) refuses that.
But I was trying to prove that this way in writing topic is just like what the german guy said :

"This entire way of trying to pin point down points which could possible criminalise a specific faith or non faith just reeks of dishonesty and childish finger pointing."

Then, why are some of you practicing that with religions ? isn't it "childish" ?
I don't kill homosexuals & people who have sex, then why do you irritate me with sick peoples' crimes, and throw it on my religion ?

and again, just like the german guy said :
"And there also religious people whom I admire and who`s work I admire, such as Joachim Gauk and Theo Van Gogh."

I also have respect to many atheist scientists & artist & even normal people, including members in this forum.
I'm trying to spread mutual respect between religious people & atheists, by raising the debates out of these empty riddles, which are nothing more than "cheap propagandas" carried away to prove a point in a childish way.

and just to be totally honest, this is a muslim serial killer :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allen_Muhammad

(February 7, 2013 at 3:36 pm)AtlasS Wrote: I was trying to make a point here, I think any religious person would understand it by now.. don't take personal crimes & throw them on religions & faiths, even if the person took the decision based on his/her faith.

Yes, but what about the murders done everyday in a war 'sanctioned by god'? Sure, a murderer is a murderer no matter what religion or lack thereof, but I still say one lunatic going on a killing spree is better than a whole set people thinking that they are killing 'the enemy' because their favorite imaginary friend and doublethink leaders said it was ok.

(February 7, 2013 at 3:45 pm)Kayenneh Wrote:

(February 7, 2013 at 3:36 pm)AtlasS Wrote: I was trying to make a point here, I think any religious person would understand it by now.. don't take personal crimes & throw them on religions & faiths, even if the person took the decision based on his/her faith.

Yes, but what about the murders done everyday in a war 'sanctioned by god'? Sure, a murderer is a murderer no matter what religion or lack thereof, but I still say one lunatic going on a killing spree is better than a whole set people thinking that they are killing 'the enemy' because their favorite imaginary friend and doublethink leaders said it was ok.

Who are these people ?
If you mean terrorist organizations, then revise the history of any nation which suffered from invasion, you'll find similar groups of warriors, with the same tactics, but it's up the domestic culture to decide their theme.

In more liberal environments, media & propaganda can replace the favorite imaginary friend, we have seen that in the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Because the media said so, the people also believed so.

Riddles : ) and it would never end.

I understand where you are coming from, AtlasS.

When I have tried to point out that faith can have positive effects, I am often greeted with a picture of the twin towers. Bothering to point out that Stalin was an atheist seems redundant as these people are often not interested in learning from a debate - rather just reaffirming their belief that all religion and religious stuff has bad (or more bad) consequences, whilst experiencing atheism leads to good (or more good) consequences.

It really isn't always the case. Indeed, Sam Harris raises the point of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism having more negative consequences than Jainism. However, Hitch has argued that Judaism was not seen as a threat at all before Zionism as these people needed to be protected, so it is impossible to measure which will become more dangerous.

But I suspect that latter point is what your whole intention of the thread was. It is impossible to tell whether someone's personal experience would have been better or not with faith or with atheism. Indeed one of Islam's strongest points is that the West has succeeded in creating a materialistic society with little moral consequence.

And one cannot deny that, looking at sex advertisements and having the options of morning after pills and abortions for the consequence of carelessness. Indeed, there seems a fundamental level of the more greed and more you gamble and consume, the more you are rewarded. The nice guys never win. The "God Bless America" film always comes to my mind.

But yes, in general I agree with your point that - if you exonerate atheist people from their crimes due to lack of faith, then you have to do the same for religious people who did it because of faith. Indeed, discussing these things highlights to me the lack of free will individuals have in the matter. Often drug addicts and those with mental illness are people who need more compassion to achieve a similar mindset and yet all we do is give them more seclusion.

It is the same with killers.

(February 7, 2013 at 3:58 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Who are these people ?
If you mean terrorist organizations, then revise the history of any nation which suffered from invasion, you'll find similar groups of warriors, with the same tactics, but it's up the domestic culture to decide their theme.

In more liberal environments, media & propaganda can replace the favorite imaginary friend, we have seen that in the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Because the media said so, the people also believed so.

Both, actually. I don't like the idea that someone thinks that he has the moral higher ground and can take lives, because one way or another it is 'justified' or a 'pure cause'.

(February 7, 2013 at 2:42 pm)AtlasS Wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer

Nothing here, just practicing my propaganda skills, I'm learning from atheists how to do that
It is indeed that he, Jeffery, was encouraged to do his crime because of atheism :

"if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?"- Jeffrey Dahmer

Don't you just notice that the most serial killers were atheists ?

Atheists are filthy vile vermin and almost as bad as Islamics. Wait a few years, I'm sure they'll be an atheist child molester too. With a bit of luck an atheist may even decide to join NAMBLA, oh wouldn't that look bad for them?

(February 7, 2013 at 4:02 pm)naimless Wrote: I understand where you are coming from, AtlasS.

When I have tried to point out that faith can have positive effects, I am often greeted with a picture of the twin towers. Bothering to point out that Stalin was an atheist seems redundant as these people are often not interested in learning from a debate - rather just reaffirming their belief that all religion and religious stuff has bad (or more bad) consequences, whilst experiencing atheism leads to good (or more good) consequences.

It really isn't always the case. Indeed, Sam Harris raises the point of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism having more negative consequences than Jainism. However, Hitch has argued that Judaism was not seen as a threat at all before Zionism as these people needed to be protected, so it is impossible to measure which will become more dangerous.

But I suspect that latter point is what your whole intention of the thread was. It is impossible to tell whether someone's personal experience would have been better or not with faith or with atheism. Indeed one of Islam's strongest points is that the West has succeeded in creating a materialistic society with little moral consequence.

And one cannot deny that, looking at sex advertisements and having the options of morning after pills and abortions for the consequence of carelessness. Indeed, there seems a fundamental level of the more greed and more you gamble and consume, the more you are rewarded. The nice guys never win. The "God Bless America" film always comes to my mind.

But yes, in general I agree with your point that - if you exonerate atheist people from their crimes due to lack of faith, then you have to do the same for religious people who did it because of faith. Indeed, discussing these things highlights to me the lack of free will individuals have in the matter. Often drug addicts and those with mental illness are people who need more compassion to achieve a similar mindset and yet all we do is give them more seclusion.

It is the same with killers.

I really started to lose hope in "renewing" the relationship between different factions..

For some reason, some people insist on insulting, making fun of others & deny without thinking for a mere moment, that the opposing side might be telling the truth..

I denied evolution before coming here, while debating with atheists I knew that evolution might be true, and also stated that it might be true.

I remained silent & absorbed insults from almost everybody, also without a result.
I tried to put faith out of personal things, and still no result.

and the only result I wanted, was for the other side to say : well we might be different, but we don't need to hate each other..that's all I wanted.

eventually, you're always the superstitious muslim fuck, the raghead monkey, who drives planes into towers, you're always a pedophile, always a rapist, always insane, always sick.

Humans are...heartbreaking, that's all what I can say.
But this time, I'm really leaving this forum for good.

A member wrote to me :

Quote:That has to be the fucking funniest thing I've read today.
I rather suspect you don't intentionally tell falsehoods, you're just too stupid and ignorant to realize how many actual falsehoods drip from your mouth.

I just hope that my message has reached everyone, this attitude would kill us all eventually, this attitude is evil.
please don't hate, please..

And I'm sorry if I offended anybody.

Salam.

I'd appreciate the original post.

Peace back.