Like they did with a meteorite?

(February 14, 2013 at 4:17 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Actually Mohammed's grave is in Al-Madinah now

Yeah...yeah.... and "moses" is on Mt. Nebo and abraham is in the Cave of the Patriarchs and jesus has several tombs.....

Do you really believe every fucking thing you are told?

I've got this bridge in Brooklyn you may want to buy.



It's a very nice bridge....I can let you have it for a song.

-_- I'm not interested in bridges. Bridges are boring, kinda reminds me with this girl who has love affairs with buildings...




Creepy :S

LastPoet stay away from this deal or I'll have to assassinate you.

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(February 14, 2013 at 10:10 pm)catfish Wrote:

(February 14, 2013 at 2:53 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Actually Mohammed's grave is in Al-Madinah now, next to that his companions, there is also a mass grave for the fallen at the battle of Uhud, the place called "al-baqee".

I have seen those places myself, it's hard to say the Mohammed is a fictional character since his grave does exist, and all the people from his time are also there, with almost a unique known grave for each of them.

You can make sure by trying to attack his grave but the road is full with ..

Are you suggesting that those people turned a grave site into an idol?
.

Nope, I don't mind them turning it into an idol, I'm still a Muslim & truly believe that Mohammed was one of the best humans on earth.

What is creepier is that you knew about that clip...
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(February 14, 2013 at 10:23 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Nope, I don't mind them turning it into an idol, I'm still a Muslim & truly believe that Mohammed was one of the best humans on earth.

I'm not saying he wasn't... I'm saying that some people seem to make material things into idols so much that you would label anyone that went to the grave as "attacking" it.

Anyways, I see it as idolatry, unless you have another explanation?
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(February 14, 2013 at 10:32 pm)catfish Wrote: What is creepier is that you knew about that clip...
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The "related videos" bar can lead to some very dark corners in youtube ...

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(February 14, 2013 at 10:32 pm)catfish Wrote: Anyways, I see it as idolatry, unless you have another explanation?
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Matter in fact ; no. The idea of idolatry is rejected in general by Islam, but you see, another contradiction is that Muslims started to glorify these symbols too much. But in the same time, this is no ordinary symbol ; this is the prophet himself. I think idolatry in this case is, well, understood. Because muslims don't have any relics, the Prophet's grave is almost the only thing that is considered as a holly relic.

I don't like idolatry, but the grave is sealed shut because many attempts were made to exhume the grave, according to historical writings the crusades had tried to exhume it too -According to Islamic sources-.

That's why many muslims are sensitive about it.

(February 14, 2013 at 10:15 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Like they did with a meteorite?

Monuments to superstition and credulity are in every religion in every culture in all of history, this is just one, the Vatican is another, and the pyramids were for the Egyptians. Jews have their waling wall.

Brian, Minimalist

The Hajj is very similar to the journey of Abraham when he reached Mecca, you see that actually does make sense. It's more like us being in Abraham's shoes, to feel what he felt. That's something that I really admire.

It's more than a monument or a ritual.

Another thing is the simplicity. Men,women, leaders, professors, garbage collectors, presidents, all stand in the same spot with the same very simple outfit, defying their differences & just standing by one side, the rich the poor.

That's something really amazing guys. It's not a symbol of superstition : )

(February 14, 2013 at 11:24 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Brian, Minimalist

The Hajj is very similar to the journey of Abraham when he reached Mecca, you see that actually does make sense. It's more like us being in Abraham's shoes, to feel what he felt. That's something that I really admire.

It's more than a monument or a ritual.

Another thing is the simplicity. Men,women, leaders, professors, garbage collectors, presidents, all stand in the same spot with the same very simple outfit, defying their differences & just standing by one side, the rich the poor.

That's something really amazing guys. It's not a symbol of superstition : )

Yes it is, as and as superstitious as buying a Ouija Board from Toys R Us. Do you really believe walking around a cube gives people magical communication with an invisible being?

How is that any different than building a monument to the sun and then praying to the sun? The Egyptians did that for 3,000 years but you don't believe the sun is a god, do you?

Do you think singing at the Mormon Tabernacle makes magic underwear work?

Having a tradition and building a monument to that tradition does not give that tradition credibility. It merely means people like believing it. Japanese people go to Buddhist temples and swing prayer wheels. Those monuments are very pretty, but you are not a Buddhist.

Chinese people put dragons at their doorsteps to "keep the evil spirits" out. So because billions of Chinese people do that that means you should too, using your logic.

Mecca existing merely means that culture built something around a tradition. It does not make Allah real. And Mohammed was just a man, he did not have any cosmic cell phone talking to a fictional being.

Otherwise I could build a monument to Harry Potter and because it is pretty that makes flying around on brooms true.

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(February 14, 2013 at 11:24 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Brian, Minimalist

The Hajj is very similar to the journey of Abraham when he reached Mecca, you see that actually does make sense. It's more like us being in Abraham's shoes, to feel what he felt. That's something that I really admire.

It's more than a monument or a ritual.

Another thing is the simplicity. Men,women, leaders, professors, garbage collectors, presidents, all stand in the same spot with the same very simple outfit, defying their differences & just standing by one side, the rich the poor.

That's something really amazing guys. It's not a symbol of superstition : )

Catholics can be both republican and democrat. Jews can be both republican and democrat. They can also span class and status and education. But when they go into their churches or visit their monuments, you don't believe in their god.

"Its pretty and it brings people together"

Yea, so does sports. Soccer brings fans together and a CEO can sit next to a truck driver and they both can be at the same stadium rooting for the same team.

It looks pretty, but hardly amazing. The Roman ruins are amazing but I don't believe in Apollo. The Pyramids are amazing but I don't believe the sun is a god. The Mayan Temples are impressive, but funny how that doomsday crap didn't pan out.

(February 14, 2013 at 10:44 pm)AtlasS Wrote:

(February 14, 2013 at 10:32 pm)catfish Wrote: Anyways, I see it as idolatry, unless you have another explanation?
.

Matter in fact ; no. The idea of idolatry is rejected in general by Islam, but you see, another contradiction is that Muslims started to glorify these symbols too much. But in the same time, this is no ordinary symbol ; this is the prophet himself. I think idolatry in this case is, well, understood. Because muslims don't have any relics, the Prophet's grave is almost the only thing that is considered as a holly relic.

I don't like idolatry, but the grave is sealed shut because many attempts were made to exhume the grave, according to historical writings the crusades had tried to exhume it too -According to Islamic sources-.

That's why many muslims are sensitive about it.

Bolded above by me. You don't like idolaltry but it's understood? It's dust man, there is no man in that grave, only a corpse decaying into the ground...
You either follow the word of Allah or you don't. Maybe you should visit that grave again and tell the people there how you think it's idolatry?
.

(February 15, 2013 at 4:33 pm)catfish Wrote:

(February 14, 2013 at 10:44 pm)AtlasS Wrote: Matter in fact ; no. The idea of idolatry is rejected in general by Islam, but you see, another contradiction is that Muslims started to glorify these symbols too much. But in the same time, this is no ordinary symbol ; this is the prophet himself. I think idolatry in this case is, well, understood. Because muslims don't have any relics, the Prophet's grave is almost the only thing that is considered as a holly relic.

I don't like idolatry, but the grave is sealed shut because many attempts were made to exhume the grave, according to historical writings the crusades had tried to exhume it too -According to Islamic sources-.

That's why many muslims are sensitive about it.

Bolded above by me. You don't like idolaltry but it's understood? It's dust man, there is no man in that grave, only a corpse decaying into the ground...
You either follow the word of Allah or you don't. Maybe you should visit that grave again and tell the people there how you think it's idolatry?
.

"You woudn't say that to their face" DUH, but that doesn't make them right. It makes them insecure. That would be like beating someone up if you claimed the moon was made of cheese and they told you it was not.

Evidence does not go like this,

Person A, "I claim X is true"

Skeptic, "Bullshit"

Person A "I'm going to kick your ass"

Civil people do it this way,

Person A "I claim X is true"

Skeptic "Bullshit"

Person A, "Why do you think it is bullshit".

WTF are you talking about?


Person A. Idolatry is wrong, it's against Islam...
Skeptic. You said you understand it and even make excuses for it.
Person A. Yes, but idolatry is wrong.
Skeptic. Fucking hypocrites....
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