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Tea Earl Grey Hot · (This post was last modified: March 21, 2013 at 11:32 pm by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)

I would like for once to see an actual argument that would attempt to prove specifically Christianity and not just basic theism.

You cannot use a generic argument such as the cosmological argument or the teleological argument unless you use it in such a way that specifically proves the existence of the Christian God.

Have fun.

~~Drich~~ · March 21, 2013 at 11:54 pm

The proof of Christianity is in God, not in some arguement. Maybe that is why none of you have found Him. Your looking to you ablity to reason and understand God, when God said you can only be given this ablity to reason through the Holy Spirit. And if you want a measure of the HS and you have to do is A/S/K as outlined in Luke 11. Which none of you will do because it is all appearently too simple.

Tea Earl Grey Hot · March 22, 2013 at 12:14 am

(March 21, 2013 at 11:54 pm)Drich Wrote: The proof of Christianity is in God, not in some arguement. Maybe that is why none of you have found Him. Your looking to you ablity to reason and understand God, when God said you can only be given this ablity to reason through the Holy Spirit. And if you want a measure of the HS and you have to do is A/S/K as outlined in Luke 11. Which none of you will do because it is all appearently too simple.

**Minimalist** · March 22, 2013 at 12:38 am

Quote:The proof of Christianity is in God,

Demonstrating, yet again, that you don't know shit from shinola, Drippy.

Lion IRC · (This post was last modified: March 22, 2013 at 12:49 am by Lion IRC.)

(March 21, 2013 at 11:32 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: I would like for once to see an actual argument that would attempt to prove specifically Christianity and not just basic theism.

You cannot use a generic argument such as the cosmological argument or the teleological argument unless you use it in such a way that specifically proves the existence of the Christian God.

Have fun.

This is a very heartening post for Christians to read. It gives great optimism because the first hurdle of universal atheism versus generic theism has been passed and the matter now becomes....

OK. Suppose I grant the logically plausible/possible existence of some form of divinity, convince me that biblical monotheism is the correct (true) recognition of such and Christianity in particular.

A loving all-powerful monotheistic, capital "G" God is the easiest, most logical, most demonstrably true, most widely-perceived theistic manifestation to justify from a theological standpoint (IMHO)

FallentoReason · (This post was last modified: March 22, 2013 at 12:57 am by FallentoReason.)

(March 22, 2013 at 12:48 am)Lion IRC Wrote:
(March 21, 2013 at 11:32 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: I would like for once to see an actual argument that would attempt to prove specifically Christianity and not just basic theism.

You cannot use a generic argument such as the cosmological argument or the teleological argument unless you use it in such a way that specifically proves the existence of the Christian God.

Have fun.

This is a very heartening post for Christians to read. It gives great optimism because the first hurdle of universal atheism versus generic theism has been passed and the matter now becomes....

OK. Suppose I grant the logically plausible/possible existence of some form of divinity, convince me that biblical monotheism is the correct (true) recognition of such and Christianity in particular.

A loving all-powerful monotheistic, capital "G" God is the easiest, most logical, most demonstrably true, most widely-perceived theistic manifestation to justify from a theological standpoint (IMHO)

Then do it. Prove it to the world.

(March 21, 2013 at 11:54 pm)Drich Wrote: The proof of Christianity is in God, not in some arguement. Maybe that is why none of you have found Him. Your looking to you ablity to reason and understand God, when God said you can only be given this ablity to reason through the Holy Spirit. And if you want a measure of the HS and you have to do is A/S/K as outlined in Luke 11. Which none of you will do because it is all appearently too simple.

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[Image: tumblr_m1mdnkQ4Nw1r3yo7eo1_500.jpg]

Lion IRC · (This post was last modified: March 22, 2013 at 12:58 am by Lion IRC.)

You dont need a cosmological argument or a teleological argument to show that a gracious God so loves the World that He sent His only Son who gave Himself to bring us the Good News
that The Kingdom of God is closer than you think.

And that people who are sad, broken, afflicted, ashamed, depressed, confused by the sins of this world (greed, hatred, violence, injustice) can find salvation, forgiveness and hope if they want.

And His death and Resurrection shows us that God DOES love us and that death is not the end.

**Silver** · (This post was last modified: March 22, 2013 at 1:02 am by Silver.)

(March 22, 2013 at 12:56 am)Lion IRC Wrote: And His death and Resurrection shows us that God DOES love us and that death is not the end.

The God of the Bible killed His own son because He is a sadistic psycho.

FallentoReason · (This post was last modified: March 22, 2013 at 1:02 am by FallentoReason.)

(March 22, 2013 at 12:56 am)Lion IRC Wrote: You dont need a cosmological argument or a teleological argument to show that a gracious God so loves the World that He sent His only Son who gave Himself to bring us the Good News that The Kingdom of God is closer than you think.

And that people who are sad, broken, afflicted, ashamed, depressed, confused by the sins of this world (greed, hatred, violence, injustice) can find salvation, forgiveness and hope if they want.

And His death and Resurrection shows us that God DOES love us and that death is not the end.

All I hear is white noise. PROVE YOUR RELIGION. That's what the OP is asking of you. Why Jesus the Christ, the one whose name doesn't appear in history apart from the writings of a mystery cult who copied Mithraism and misinterpreted the Hebrew scriptures?

(March 22, 2013 at 12:59 am)Mr Infidel Wrote:
(March 22, 2013 at 12:56 am)Lion IRC Wrote: And His death and Resurrection shows us that God DOES love us and that death is not the end.

Killing His own son shows what a sadistic psycho He is.

Not only that, but to accept the most inhumane act of the time which was done to an innocent person, in order to become a Christian, is absolutely sickening. Then again, the OT gore builds up an ever increasing immunity until when you finally read about the crucifixion, you've become well conditioned in the barbaric ways of that filthy book.

Lion IRC · (This post was last modified: March 22, 2013 at 1:40 am by Lion IRC.)

I dont rely on the teleological or cosmological or ontological arguments.
I dont base my relationship with God on debates between Bart Ehrman and William Lane Craig or the carbon dating of dead sea scrolls.

The God of the Bible is manifest to Christians as a personal reality whether atheists believe or not. Christians have personal direct evidence that is corroborated by millions of others. And they are ''anchored'' to it (as Christian author Max Lucado would say) in three ways..

Anchor point #1 – My life is not futile... there IS something which you can grip when facing the surging tides of futility and relativism. Someone is in control and you have a purpose. Atheists have only themselves and the mirror they look into when seeking a ''purpose''.

Anchor point #2 – My failures are not fatal. There is always hope. Yes, we all sin - do stuff which we morally regret - but sin is not a terminal illness anymore than atheism is a life-sentence. It’s not that He loves what the sinners did, but He loves who you are. You are His. The one who has the right to condemn you provided the way to acquit you. You make mistakes. God doesn’t. And he made you.

Anchor point #3 – Your death is not final. You can anchor to the same stone that was rolled in front of Jesus' tomb. It’s large. It’s round. And it’s heavy. It blocked the door of a grave. It wasn’t big enough, though. The tomb that it sealed was the tomb of a transient. He only went in to prove he could come out. And on the way out He took the stone with him and turned it into an anchor point.

Ideas paraphrased from one of my favorite books, ''Six Hours One Friday'' Max Lucado.
Publisher: Thomas Nelson 2009

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