(March 24, 2013 at 4:33 pm)jstrodel Wrote: You don't even understand what the shallow arguments are. You don't even know what the arguments are for God's existence.

You apparently have no idea how highly offensive it is to have somebody tell us what we know or do not know (or believe).

You might try shutting your cakehole every once in awhile and listening instead.

(March 24, 2013 at 4:33 pm)jstrodel Wrote: What percentage of great scientists, philosophers, writers, historians, men who are responsible for the learning of societies have been Christian in the last 500 years?

You don't even understand what the shallow arguments are. You don't even know what the arguments are for God's existence.

You don't know what shallow arguments are, considering you just made one. What percentage of people have been Christians in the last 500 years?

Ryantology, there are many arguments for God's existence and the truth of Christianity, and I have posted them on here over and over again. It is simply not true that I am only arguing that God exists because his existence cannot be dis-proven, I am arguing God exists because of historical evidence (which accepts the historicity of Jesus Christ and the apostles working to spread the message that they would spread at the cost of their own lives), the coherence and explanatory power of theism (in the cosmological, moral and teleological arguments that coincide with modern physics such as the big bang theory and ethics in appreciating human language which refers to ethical concepts), the historical spread of Christianity through miracles and signs and wonders which I have personally experienced.

Also the historical reality of Israel and how it relates to Islam, and the spread of monotheism around the world and how Islam, Christianity and Judaism have created the most advanced societies in existence.

There are many other arguments as well, if you want to study natural theology.

Quote:You don't even know what the arguments are for God's existence.

Yeah, we do. They all boil down to one:

God exists because the Bible says God exists because the Bible says God exists because the Bible says God exists, ad infinitum.

(March 24, 2013 at 4:37 pm)Darkstar Wrote:

(March 24, 2013 at 4:33 pm)jstrodel Wrote: What percentage of great scientists, philosophers, writers, historians, men who are responsible for the learning of societies have been Christian in the last 500 years?

You don't even understand what the shallow arguments are. You don't even know what the arguments are for God's existence.

You don't know what shallow arguments are, considering you just made one. What percentage of people have been Christians in the last 500 years?

What does that have to do with anything? The more people are Christian, who may possibly have justified beliefs surrounding Christianity (perhaps through miracles or through study and wisdom), the more likely Christianity is true. This does not prove Christianity is true, but it makes it more likely that it is.

This is not ad populum. Ad populum involved unjustified beliefs. If people have justified beliefs or something that is likely to confer justification (being a scientist, philosopher or theologian), it is not ad populum to appeal to them, it is an argument from authority.

(March 24, 2013 at 4:33 pm)jstrodel Wrote: You don't even understand what the shallow arguments are.

Sure I do. Here's an example of one:

jstrodel Wrote:What percentage of great scientists, philosophers, writers, historians, men who are responsible for the learning of societies have been Christian in the last 500 years?

Appeal to authority. Shallow. How much evidence have those men produced to prove that god exists? Zero.

jstrodel Wrote:You don't even know what the arguments are for God's existence.

Everyone does, it's not like they're a secret, or that they aren't being made constantly in these forums. I spent almost 30 years making those same arguments. They're shallow. Arguments are not evidence. Arguments are not proof.

The six-year-old argues for the existence of the Tooth Fairy because his tooth is no longer under his pillow, having been replaced by a shiny new quarter (or these days by a $20 bill, I suppose). That is his argument, and he actually has evidence. Yet you sneer at that poor young child for having a better case for his imaginary benefactor than you are able to make for yours.

(March 24, 2013 at 4:43 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

Quote:You don't even know what the arguments are for God's existence.

Yeah, we do. They all boil down to one:

God exists because the Bible says God exists because the Bible says God exists because the Bible says God exists, ad infinitum.

I just posted 20 arguments and none of them took that form.

(March 24, 2013 at 4:45 pm)jstrodel Wrote: What does that have to do with anything? The more people are Christian, who may possibly have justified beliefs surrounding Christianity (perhaps through miracles or through study and wisdom), the more likely Christianity is true. This does not prove Christianity is true, but it makes it more likely that it is.

This is not ad populum. Ad populum involved unjustified beliefs. If people have justified beliefs or something that is likely to confer justification (being a scientist, philosopher or theologian), it is not ad populum to appeal to them, it is an argument from authority.

Argumentum ad populum
Actually, it is still ad populum. Being a scientist and a Christian does not mean you used science to justify being a Christian. If anyone could bring forth scientific evidence of a god, everyone would know about it by now.

jstrodel Wrote:What percentage of great scientists, philosophers, writers, historians, men who are responsible for the learning of societies have been Christian in the last 500 years?

Quote:Appeal to authority. Shallow. How much evidence have those men produced to prove that god exists? Zero.

You are a fool. It is not fallacious to appeal to authority, people do it all the time. You appeal to authority every time you say evolutionary theory is true without having a direct experience of the truth of evolutionary theory, that is, everytime you do not see the terms involved involved, that you base your conclusions on propositions you can't see, you are appealing to authority.

You are a fool if you think the witness of western civilization counts for nothing. I could almost garentee you that you are under 25 or perhaps under 30. Adults don't think the way that you do. You have a foolish spirit going through you.

Go ask someone over 30 whether it matters what the greatest figures in Western civilization have thought.

Grow up. Just because something doesn't demonstrate the truth of an argument doesn't mean it is fallacious. This is the way that children reason. Obviously my intent was not to demonstrate the truth of Christianity, only to show that it is a good starting point because of the large numbers of people who have considered to be true.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.
1 Cor 13:11

Quote:It is not fallacious to appeal to authority, people do it all the time.

Don't you see what you just did?