Joel: I understand what you are saying in regards to that. But for me, even billions of years doesn't seem like enough to successfully take a single cell all the way to a human, especially considering the "rats with wings becoming bats" argument.

Tiberius: Thank you for the link, it provided some good reading.

What you're doing now, it seems, is rejecting the evidence put in front of you to continue with your own belief.
I understand that it may be difficult to get your head round, but the more you look into it; the more it will make sense to you.

You can't think of it in the sense that a cell evolved into a human. That's a little incorrect. You've got to realise that there were hundreds - thousands, even - of different changes inbetween.

I'm not rejecting it, there's just too much to consider. I haven't been taught a lot about evolution, so yes,it will take a while for me to decide whether to accept it or not. Let's just leave this as a welcome thread, and we can continue this discussion in a dedicated forum.

(March 25, 2013 at 10:19 am)Endo Wrote: I'm not rejecting it, there's just too much to consider. I haven't been taught a lot about evolution, so yes,it will take a while for me to decide whether to accept it o not.

How can you decide whether or not you believe something?

EDIT: especially when the evidence is on one side, and there's no evidence for the other.

(March 25, 2013 at 9:04 am)Endo Wrote: It seems a lot more likely to me that someone/something caused the universe's existence. Unless there's a fourth option to the big three: Creationism, ID, Evolution. Please help me.

Welcome.

Help is available but you must want to be helped. If you prefer to stick with the way it seems to you given your Christian upbringing, that is entirely up to you.

http://youtu.be/uGQF8LAmiaE

Joel: You don't understand what I'm risking with this change. I would go from being a Christian to being an evolutionist, which means that there is no eternity, a concept that has been prominent in my life for 18 years. I want there to be something else after it all, I've lived a fifth of my life already, and if there isn't anything, then I better have a damn good life. I don't want to die an atheist, when OOPS!, God was real. There's no way that I'm going to change my religious beliefs in one weekend. I can't undo 18 years of learning and training on a few scientific articles that provide some support for evolution. There's no way to see God, because He doesn't reveal himself like He does in the OT, and there's also no way to see Macroevolution because it takes too long. They both require faith, but if I had a time machine or a vision, that would seal the deal. And that's just the spiritual side of things. My entire family is Christian, my dad's side, my mom's side, everyone. I'd be the first one to break away from that. It'd be awkward enough lying to them about all this, and even weirder if they hear that my beliefs have changed. And then we'd have the whole "Where did we go wrong in our parenting" speech.

Whateverist: Oh, you made a funny. Thank you for that.

Quote: I accepted Christ when I was in kindergarten. I discovered porn when I was 12,

Seems like a step up.

Welcome.

Endo FFS Calm down. you are risking nothing.

You are yet to live. 18 years? pfft you are not out of nappies yet mate.

Oh you are worried about the emotional blackmail and speeches? What you thought living was absolved of risk? Is this what your 18 years has taught you?

What a gutless little Paramecium! Harden the fuck up and take the step! Your life is on the line EVERY fucking day and there is no 'Santa Claus' to get you out of a predicament. FFS

I would say to you at this point, you are too weak to continue on without some sort of crutch. Keep questioning and maybe later when you are more adult you can make the developmental changes necessary.

(March 25, 2013 at 10:51 am)Endo Wrote: There's no way that I'm going to change my religious beliefs in one weekend. I can't undo 18 years of learning and training on a few scientific articles that provide some support for evolution.

You are willing to learn, and that is enough. Keep searching, and welcome to the forums.

I'd like to point out that there is no such thing as "evolutionism" just as there is no "gravitationism" and no "magneticism"

Evolution acceptance doesn't require any faith. As I have pointed out, speciation (macroevolution) has been observed - and Tiberius posted a link to the TO article.