(April 6, 2013 at 4:27 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: "And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven." Luke 21:11

That would be called making a generalization based on what one knows will most likely occur anyway. So called psychics and horoscopes do it all the time. I can do the same thing by stating that sometime in the near future a woman will leave her apartment on a clear day only to find her dark thoughts mirrored in a sudden onset of a thunderstorm that catches her unawares.

(April 6, 2013 at 4:16 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 4:13 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: Or maybe you believe that the universe always was and always will be... but then if you do, isn't it then more likely that there is a being behind the creation that always was and always will be, and quite less likely that one giant inanimate universe with no decision making capabilities always has been and always will be?

No, it is not more likely that a magical sky daddy is behind the creation of the universe.

So, what then, in your opinion, caused the creation of the universe? Or our creation? Just an infinitely on going random occurence of events? Or maybe a big bang of nothing, that turned into something... You believe that the universe, after it exploded from nothing.. yes nothing.. had the ability to decide where the planets would go, and which one could support life? The universe now has the ability to make decisions?

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(April 6, 2013 at 4:37 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 4:27 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: "And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven." Luke 21:11

That would be called making a generalization based on what one knows will most likely occur anyway. So called psychics and horoscopes do it all the time. I can do the same thing by stating that sometime in the near future a woman will leave her apartment on a clear day only to find her dark thoughts mirrored in a sudden onset of a thunderstorm that catches her unawares.

It's actually called a prophecy. Maybe you can muster up enough courage to crack open that little book called the Bible and go to that book and chapter and read the rest of it... Or maybe you won't.

(April 6, 2013 at 4:27 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: Maybe it's up to you to see if there is proof, instead of just accepting that there isn't any.

If there is no proof, then there is none. It is not that difficult a concept to understand. Fooling myself into believing there is proof where there is none is the sign or a diseased mind.

Quote:What then is the purpose of living, if we only live just to cease existence when we die? Anything we do in our life won't last, so what is the point?

The purpose of living is to enjoy the life we are given to its fullest extent, not to merely exist in the hope that there is something better after this life. Since nothing experienced in this life is of any significance to you, for you believe the afterlife is so much better, should you not be attempting to reach that afterlife faster rather than prolonging your miserable life on earth?

Quote:Do you know how the universe came into existence? 100% of the way, you know how it happened? No, I don't think so.. Yet you obviously believe it did come into existence, yes? So there is you believing in something that you don't know about.

Obviously it came into existence for the mere fact that it exists. And believing in the steps it's taken to get here based on evidence is one step above believing everything came into existence based on a creator which has NO evidence. But I'm sure you've heard that one before. So here's what I'd like to know. What evidence have you reviewed (specific data) that has lead you to conclude that the universe is here by design?

Quote:And then since it is more likely that there is someone behind it, wouldn't that mean that this is an all powerful being?
I believe that person is God. What about you?

I used to believe that the lack of evidence for his existence was naturally believable in my Christian beliefs. Then I decided to review my beliefs. When's the last time you opened up your bible? When's the last time you reviewed what your religion believes? When's the last time you reviewed the reasons why you believe what you believe? If the answer isn't every day: I'd encourage you to do so.

Quote:I'd say having no hope is pathetic... Where will you go when you die?

No one knows, isn't it awesome? I can't see how that's hopelessness. I have hope. I hope that I can fill a lifetime with everything I wish to accomplish. I hope that the love I give in my lifetime ripples out in those I come in contact with and grows over time. I hope that there really is a part of us that goes on living after death. I hope there is god, personally. Just not your god. Because I know for a fact that your god--the god I used to worship--is not real by it's own assertions.

(April 6, 2013 at 4:38 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: You believe that the universe, after it exploded from nothing.. yes nothing.. had the ability to decide where the planets would go, and which one could support life? The universe now has the ability to make decisions?

And there it is. The contradiction for which I was waiting. Are you not the one who claims that your god came from nothing? If the universe cannot possibly come from nothing, then neither can a magical sky daddy. Just because science does not have all the answers, though the Big Bang Theory is widely accepted as being accurate, does not mean that god is automatically the answer. That is the lazy answer for fools too ignorant to use their brains.

(April 6, 2013 at 4:43 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 4:27 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: Maybe it's up to you to see if there is proof, instead of just accepting that there isn't any.

If there is no proof, then there is none. It is not that difficult a concept to understand. Fooling myself into believing there is proof where there is none is the sign or a diseased mind.

Quote:What then is the purpose of living, if we only live just to cease existence when we die? Anything we do in our life won't last, so what is the point?

The purpose of living is to enjoy the life we are given to its fullest extent, not to merely exist in the hope that there is something better after this life. Since nothing experienced in this life is of any significance to you, for you believe the afterlife is so much better, should you not be attempting to reach that afterlife faster rather than prolonging your miserable life on earth?

How do you know that there is no proof? Have you sought it out? And I did not say that nothing on earth has any value to me, I said that our actions do not last. To argue that your actions last forever on earth is.. dumb.

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(April 6, 2013 at 4:47 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 4:38 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: You believe that the universe, after it exploded from nothing.. yes nothing.. had the ability to decide where the planets would go, and which one could support life? The universe now has the ability to make decisions?

And there it is. The contradiction for which I was waiting. Are you not the one who claims that your god came from nothing? If the universe cannot possibly come from nothing, then neither can a magical sky daddy. Just because science does not have all the answers, though the Big Bang Theory is widely accepted as being accurate, does not mean that god is automatically the answer. That is the lazy answer for fools too ignorant to use their brains.

I did not say that my God comes from nothing. Where did you get that from?

(April 6, 2013 at 4:49 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: How do you know that there is no proof?

Because if there was proof, everyone would believe without question. Since there is doubt, and since belief requires faith (the veritable lack of evidence), the default position is that there is no higher power.

(April 6, 2013 at 4:44 am)missluckie26 Wrote:

Quote:Do you know how the universe came into existence? 100% of the way, you know how it happened? No, I don't think so.. Yet you obviously believe it did come into existence, yes? So there is you believing in something that you don't know about.

Obviously it came into existence for the mere fact that it exists. And believing in the steps it's taken to get here based on evidence is one step above believing everything came into existence based on a creator which has NO evidence. But I'm sure you've heard that one before. So here's what I'd like to know. What evidence have you reviewed (specific data) that has lead you to conclude that the universe is here by design?

I haven't viewed any specific data that leads me to believe the universe is here by design. I have nothing more than the Bible and my faith. What is there that proves that there wasn't a creator unequivocally?

Quote:And then since it is more likely that there is someone behind it, wouldn't that mean that this is an all powerful being?
I believe that person is God. What about you?

I used to believe that the lack of evidence for his existence was naturally believable in my Christian beliefs. Then I decided to review my beliefs. When's the last time you opened up your bible? When's the last time you reviewed what your religion believes? When's the last time you reviewed the reasons why you believe what you believe? If the answer isn't every day: I'd encourage you to do so.


Every single day. Unfailingly.

Quote:I'd say having no hope is pathetic... Where will you go when you die?

No one knows, isn't it awesome? I can't see how that's hopelessness. I have hope. I hope that I can fill a lifetime with everything I wish to accomplish. I hope that the love I give in my lifetime ripples out in those I come in contact with and grows over time. I hope that there really is a part of us that goes on living after death. I hope there is god, personally. Just not your god. Because I know for a fact that your god--the god I used to worship--is not real by it's own assertions.

Which assertions?

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(April 6, 2013 at 4:54 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 4:49 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: How do you know that there is no proof?

Because if there was proof, everyone would believe without question. Since there is doubt, and since belief requires faith (the veritable lack of evidence), the default position is that there is no higher power.

Awesome, I'm glad you have everything figured out for yourself. Take the default, that's always the best way to go, right? Don't seek, don't find, that what I always say...

You believe that the universe, after it exploded from nothing.. yes nothing.. had the ability to decide where the planets would go, and which one could support life? The universe now has the ability to make decisions?

I can't believe I have to say this, but.. Theres more than ONE life supporting planet out there. We aren't rare. Just because we can't jump over and bring back a plant doesn't mean there's NO evidence for life elsewhere in the universe. In fact, it seems that life-supporting planets are commonplace. The universe need not be self aware for physics and chemistry to take place. As for exploding from nothing: I'll leave those questions for the particle physicists to duel out rather than assume I can comprehend the math. I'd much rather take peer reviewed data over 2000 yr old jesus testimony with no proof whatsoever, any day of the week.

(April 6, 2013 at 4:56 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: Don't seek, don't find, that what I always say...

The problem with seeking and finding is that if one seeks hard enough, one can find anything to support his belief. Convincing others, that is the problem. Get enough people to believe you, however, and that is how cults and religions begin. Just because I seek something with all my heart and find it, whether it be a higher power or leprechauns, does not mean that it actually exists. It just means that I have willingly convinced myself of its existence despite the lack of verifiable evidence.