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Quote:I haven't viewed any specific data that leads me to believe the universe is here by design. I have nothing more than the Bible and my faith. What is there that proves that there wasn't a creator unequivocally?
Hey, if that's how you wanna live your life: fine. Just don't tell me or anyone else how to live based on your faith beliefs.
Me? I'd rather make a conclusion based on material fact.
1. Biologists have examined each of the molecular systems claimed to be the products of design and have shown how they could have arisen through natural processes.
2. Evolutionary biologists also have demonstrated how complex biochemical mechanisms could have evolved from simpler precursor systems.
3. Existing systems also can acquire new functions.
Irregardless of whether you believe evolution happened or not: there's no proof for design at all. Go look for it, if you don't believe me.
Which leaves us with, in the end if you believe God set off the big bang and thus evolutionary creation through faith: you're looking at bold-faced proof otherwise and disregarding it on purpose. Because no where in creation does it say, "made by god", or "designed by god". I mean, If there was a shred of proof that these systems were intelligently designed I'd see your point. But there isn't. So you're living in delusion.
That's fine. Just don't tell me I'm going to hell, or tell my friend he's going to hell. Or legislate against people's personal liberties because of what your delusional god(s) dictate.
Quote:Every single day. Unfailingly.
I feel sorry then that I questioned you. My bad. You read every day the content of that Bible and you still believe in god?
I know what you're thinking, I'm just another one of those evil doers not unlike those who mocked Noah. I'm just the devil testing you like in the desert with Jesus.
Here's the thing, I'm not. I'm seriously trying to deprogram your mind from a cult based reality.
Quote:Which assertions?
Love. God doesn't love us. Justice. God is not just. Infallibility. God is definitely fallible based on his own purported works. Omnipotence God is not omnipotent
And the zillions of contradictions that lie within the Bible, with regards to these attributes.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
(April 6, 2013 at 4:44 am)missluckie26 Wrote: No one knows, isn't it awesome? I can't see how that's hopelessness. I have hope. I hope that I can fill a lifetime with everything I wish to accomplish. I hope that the love I give in my lifetime ripples out in those I come in contact with and grows over time. I hope that there really is a part of us that goes on living after death. I hope there is god, personally. Just not your god. Because I know for a fact that your god--the god I used to worship--is not real by it's own assertions.
The bold above, you know if something makes an assertion that it exist, nothing can do nothing not even assert.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
April 6, 2013 at 5:25 am (This post was last modified: April 6, 2013 at 5:32 am by Mystical.)
Just talking to you guys in language you can understand, darling
Also, I was looking past your fire-filled signature and saw that you you spelt Southern wrong under your Avatar name description. Just a heads up.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
(April 6, 2013 at 4:38 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: You believe that the universe, after it exploded from nothing.. yes nothing.. had the ability to decide where the planets would go, and which one could support life? The universe now has the ability to make decisions?
And there it is. The contradiction for which I was waiting. Are you not the one who claims that your god came from nothing? If the universe cannot possibly come from nothing, then neither can a magical sky daddy. Just because science does not have all the answers, though the Big Bang Theory is widely accepted as being accurate, does not mean that god is automatically the answer. That is the lazy answer for fools too ignorant to use their brains.
The BGT claims that some sort of matter has always exited, probably hydrogen. Do you believe this? If so why is it so hard to believe that a being we (Christians) call God has always existed. Those who believe dark energy and dark matter are possible should have no problem with God being possible, by the very same reasoning.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
April 6, 2013 at 5:36 am (This post was last modified: April 6, 2013 at 5:40 am by Silver.)
(April 6, 2013 at 5:33 am)Godschild Wrote: Those who believe dark energy and dark matter are possible should have no problem with God being possible, by the very same reasoning.
We know that the universe exists. There is no proof of god's existence.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
(April 6, 2013 at 4:57 am)missluckie26 Wrote: You believe that the universe, after it exploded from nothing.. yes nothing.. had the ability to decide where the planets would go, and which one could support life? The universe now has the ability to make decisions?
I can't believe I have to say this, but.. Theres more than ONE life supporting planet out there. We aren't rare. Just because we can't jump over and bring back a plant doesn't mean there's NO evidence for life elsewhere in the universe. In fact, it seems that life-supporting planets are commonplace. The universe need not be self aware for physics and chemistry to take place. As for exploding from nothing: I'll leave those questions for the particle physicists to duel out rather than assume I can comprehend the math. I'd much rather take peer reviewed data over 2000 yr old jesus testimony with no proof whatsoever, any day of the week.
Whether or not there is more than one life supporting planet is not the issue here. It's the universe and the creation of it. And everything I believe in has a long long history, and much "peer reviewed data".
[/i][/size]God demonstrates His own love for us in this: that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
(April 6, 2013 at 5:25 am)missluckie26 Wrote: Just talking to you guys in language you can understand, darling
Also, I was looking past your fire-filled signature and saw that you you spelt Southern wrong under your Avatar name description. Just a heads up.
Go ahead and use those big words, we have dictionaries. The misspelling was on purpose, trying to be humorous, guess I failed. Oh, you missed the Baptist part. You should have looked at religious view darling
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
April 6, 2013 at 5:44 am (This post was last modified: April 6, 2013 at 5:44 am by Silver.)
(April 6, 2013 at 5:40 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: And everything I believe in has a long long history, and much "peer reviewed data".
Unverifiable history based on a fiction book written by fallible men. Also, the so-called peer reviewed data is neither due to the fact that it is not accepted by any credible people in the scientific community.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
I believe you are referring to the current understanding that the universe is 5% visible matter, 25% dark matter, and 70% dark energy (or something like that). I would not say that this accounts for the existence of "god." Current M-Theory is hinting to the reality that some of the "stuff" in our universe may actually be shared by other universes in the 11-dimensional multi-verse. Gravity, for example is seen to "leak" into our universe from this 11th dimension. I don't claim to know for a fact that this theory is the correct one, I don't have faith in when it comes to what I believe: I like to know what I believe now.
Thing is: there's proof for dark matter. There's no proof that that matter is anything else than just matter. Giving it a relation to being proof for god's being is ridiculous. That would be like me saying air is physical proof of my (hypothetical) goddess.
Dark Matter Proof Found, Scientists Say
John Roach
for National Geographic News
August 22, 2006
A team of researchers has found the first direct proof for the existence of dark matter, the mysterious and almost invisible substance thought to make up almost a quarter of the universe.
Dark matter does not absorb or emit light. So far, astronomers have inferred its presence only indirectly by measuring the effects of its gravity.
But now, by observing a massive collision between two large clusters of galaxies, astronomers have detected what they say could only be the signature of dark matter.
The scientists used optical and x-ray telescopes to measure the location of mass in the collided formation, known as the "bullet cluster" because of its shape.
More than 90 percent of the visible mass in a galaxy cluster is hot gas. The rest is stars located within individual galaxies.
The composite image at left shows that this hot gas (red) was dragged away from the stars and galaxies (blue) during the collision (see bigger photo).
But most of the mass—and thus matter—is located within the galaxies, or the blue areas, scientists say.
In other words, the bulk of visible matter in the clusters has been separated from the majority of mass—which therefore must be dark matter.
"This proves in a simple and direct way that dark matter exists," Maxim Markevitch of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Massachusetts, said in a telephone briefing Monday with reporters.
Scientists calculate that dark matter makes up about 25 percent of the universe.
By contrast, ordinary matter—the stuff that makes up stars, planets, and everything on Earth—makes up no more than about 5 percent of the universe.
The other 70 percent of the universe, scientists believe, is made of dark energy, an even more elusive force that is pushing the universe apart at an ever increasing rate.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
(April 6, 2013 at 5:33 am)Godschild Wrote: Those who believe dark energy and dark matter are possible should have no problem with God being possible, by the very same reasoning.
We know that the universe exists. There is no proof of god's existence.
Yes, I'm quite aware of the universe, however I did not say universe, I said dark matter and dark energy, you're trying to misdirect what I said. Please answer what I state and leave the misdirection in your keyboard.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
![[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]](https://66.media.tumblr.com/5fb74c6d16622fb3dbb358509c9aec03/tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif)
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