Quote:Mr_Dew7 Wrote:
You already stated that you hope there is a God.

The bottom line is that you can't prove to me that God doesn't exist.

I stated no such thing.

I'm the one

(April 6, 2013 at 6:11 am)missluckie26 Wrote:

Quote:Those are your assertions not assertions from God. Let me tell you what I've got.. I've got an entire family history of horrible sin. My family history is full of drugs, violence, laziness, and many more things that I cannot put on this forum for self embarrassment and pain. I've got parents who loved whiskey more than me. I actually was on my own at fifteen, stealing just to eat. No bullshit here. And I've got a God and Savior who freed me from suicidal thoughts, irrational anger, and addictions to things I won't say. He freed me from the abuse of my past and everything that was holding me down. I am no longer defined by what once was, and I am a new creation. When you run into issues like these, the ones that make you.think life isn't such a good idea, where do you turn? I firmly believe every word of the Bible and even if I were the only one left in the world, going to my death for my beliefs, then they would still never change. You can argue all the science you want, but when it comes down to it, as long as I believe in God, then no human mind can compare to His. How are we to comprehend his will and plans? I AK not skilled enough to understand these, but each day I learn a little more. And each day my faith becomes more unbreakable.

Are you sure that it wasn't just you who got you through that? I have family history too. Suicide, yes. Drugs/alcohol, yes. If you read some of my posts you'll see just how dark life has gotten for me. I too thought I was living his plans, living my life for him. I thought he got me through things.
But looking back, I got me through those things, while wondering where he was.
As for suicide: I used to be against it because I believed it was a road directly to hell (and that my family members are in hell). Now as a non-believer, I just realize that it's incredibly selfish to kill oneself, and a waste of the only life you have. I don't need a consequence other than the natural default consequences (In real life) to keep me from committing suicide. Every day, it's on my mind because I have immediate family members (2) who are religious (Christian) and are suicidal. They would rather die and go to heaven, than live here on this earth. One's passive in his attempts, the other has tried jumping out of a moving vehicle. Every day I expect the worst call of my life. But I'm not suicidal.

I've been addicted to drugs before, but I don't deal with those addictions anymore. At one point I was on the equivalent of 60 percocets a day (medically necessary up until the day I quit). I don't need god to strengthen me every day, I do it on my own. You do too. You know what got me off of those drugs? A 3 day hospital stay and lots and lots of endured pain and my own resolution in knowing that there is no quality to life on those drugs. I was on them unwillingly, so I saw what they did to my life as an intrusion. There's many paths to realization though. I bet you can identify yours, and I bet your resolution didn't come "because God doesn't want me to do drugs".

Quote:Yes, it was because God doesn't want me to do them.

I am no longer defined by what I once was, either. Nor what was done to me. Granted, one can never fully forget but I've made an active choice as you seem to have also--to move past it as best I can. Everything is still possible without god. Every day I grow, too. But I build myself up, I don't place that responsibility on anyone or anything other than myself.

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(April 6, 2013 at 6:10 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 6:07 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: You already stated that you hope there is a God.

The bottom line is that you can't prove to me that God doesn't exist.

I stated no such thing.

Trying to disprove the existence of god is as absurd as trying to disprove the existence of leprechauns. I KNOW there is no god just as I KNOW leprechauns are not real.

Then why are you here debating the subject, if not to prove us wrong?

Quote:I see in the article the scientist say they believe and use the word elusive, that wording is there because there is no proof, none, it is all speculation at best.
I did not try and use dark matter and dark energy as proof of God, you're reading your own conclusions into my statements, please don't. What I said if one can believe in the unproven and unseen dark matter and dark energy, then why is it so hard to say God is possible.

Dark energy and dark matter are two different things. Dark matter, according to this article, HAS PROOF of it's existence now. Dark energy is elusive.
Either way, you're asking me why if I believe red and blue exist why I can't believe god exists.
I never said god was impossible. That was Maelstrom. Please don't read your own conclusions from my statements. I said your god as described by his bible, is not real. But that would have to be another thread and another night.

national geographic article Wrote:A team of researchers has found the first direct proof for the existence of dark matter, the mysterious and almost invisible substance thought to make up almost a quarter of the universe.
...
In other words, the bulk of visible matter in the clusters has been separated from the majority of mass—which therefore must be dark matter.

"This proves in a simple and direct way that dark matter exists," Maxim Markevitch of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Massachusetts, said in a telephone briefing Monday with reporters.

As for believing god is possible, I can't say for certain it isn't, and I'd be using [faith] to say I didn't. So. As it stands, however, until I have any semblance of proof for the existence of god: there is no god. All of the evidence (quote unquote spiritual and tangible evidence) follows the no god having anything to do with existence, route.

(April 6, 2013 at 6:17 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: Then why are you here debating the subject, if not to prove us wrong?

I am primarily here to be among like minded atheists. The fact that theists frequent an atheist forum in a poor, futile attempt to prove the existence of their god is a bonus.

Funny, but untrue. I think it's the opposite of futility for them to come here, just like it's the opposite of futility for me to go to the Catholic forums

And for the record, I don't care what you believe. I only care why you believe because of how your beliefs affect those around you. IE: don't legislate your beliefs into my life and I won't ask nagging questions about the core of your belief system.

Good night!

(April 6, 2013 at 6:35 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 6:17 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: Then why are you here debating the subject, if not to prove us wrong?

I am primarily here to be among like minded atheists. The fact that theists frequent an atheist forum in a poor, futile attempt to prove the existence of their god is a bonus.

I just joined this forum so that I could better understand the mind of an atheist. Truly. I have never really understood, so I thought I would make an attempt at it. Futile isn't really the word I would use here though, not to describe my attempts. And futile will never be a word to describe my actions, because there is a driving force behind everything that I do and a reason for every decision I make. Me getting you to believe in God has no bearing on my mission or my goals. And it is not my objective here to change your mind. It is my objective to do what I can, where I can, for those who will accept my help. Period.

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(April 6, 2013 at 6:42 am)missluckie26 Wrote: Funny, but untrue. I think it's the opposite of futility for them to come here, just like it's the opposite of futility for me to go to the Catholic forums

And for the record, I don't care what you believe. I only care why you believe because of how your beliefs affect those around you. IE: don't legislate your beliefs into my life and I won't ask nagging questions about the core of your belief system.

Good night!

You are correct! And no worries, God doesn't want us to force anything on anyone, that's not how we are supposed to do things, but if the topic of my faith should arise, I will come to the conversation.

So what have you found out Drew?

(April 6, 2013 at 7:23 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: So what have you found out Drew?

I've found out that to understand another's mind is more difficult than I had at first believed it would be. I've confirmed my belief that I need to continue learning, because there is much that I do not know. I have not been involved in the world of religious debate for long, but I do know that a good debate is always fun. And it always, every time, strengthens my faith in God.

(April 6, 2013 at 7:55 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 7:23 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: So what have you found out Drew?

I've found out that to understand another's mind is more difficult than I had at first believed it would be. I've confirmed my belief that I need to continue learning, because there is much that I do not know. I have not been involved in the world of religious debate for long, but I do know that a good debate is always fun. And it always, every time, strengthens my faith in God.

Then you haven't read your Pentateuch/Bible/Qur'an?

(April 6, 2013 at 8:00 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(April 6, 2013 at 7:55 am)Mr_Dew7 Wrote: I've found out that to understand another's mind is more difficult than I had at first believed it would be. I've confirmed my belief that I need to continue learning, because there is much that I do not know. I have not been involved in the world of religious debate for long, but I do know that a good debate is always fun. And it always, every time, strengthens my faith in God.

Then you haven't read your Pentateuch/Bible/Qur'an?

Oh yes I have. I read my Bible every day. And every day I learn something new from it. But there is much outside of the Bible that is learnable as well. While I won't ever change my faith or denounce God, I don't see myself sitting around trying to argue about something I know nothing about. So, I wish to learn, so that I can better prove my faith to others. Now I know how atheists feel on a few subjects. That is knowledge worth having.