Quote:If you really want proof then just A/S/K.

I asked you. As usual, you have oogatz.

(April 18, 2013 at 10:06 am)Drich Wrote: If you believe Hell to be immoral or just plain wrong, then what would you suggest God do with those who do not want to serve Him for eternity?

Drich, why this pathological desire to torture people who don't believe the same way as you do?

It's not healthy you know.

I would suggest that you seek some professional help.

If not Hell then what?

According to the majority of god fearing fools ... Hell is full of engineers and scientists and artisans of all talents. Hell? With such a population I would expect it to be and air-conditioned, landscaped and financially viable place by now. Heaven? full of the worthless portions of humanity to scared to say boo.

(April 22, 2013 at 10:05 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: If not Hell then what?

According to the majority of god fearing fools ... Hell is full of engineers and scientists and artisans of all talents. Hell? With such a population I would expect it to be and air-conditioned, landscaped and financially viable place by now. Heaven? full of the worthless portions of humanity to scared to say boo.

Kichi, you're kinda awesome.

(April 22, 2013 at 10:06 am)Tonus Wrote:

(April 22, 2013 at 10:05 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: If not Hell then what?

According to the majority of god fearing fools ... Hell is full of engineers and scientists and artisans of all talents. Hell? With such a population I would expect it to be and air-conditioned, landscaped and financially viable place by now. Heaven? full of the worthless portions of humanity to scared to say boo.

Kichi, you're kinda awesome.

Eh? Thank you.

(April 19, 2013 at 12:30 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: The universe doesn't care what we really want.

Reality is not obliged to conform to our desires.

Neither does God. I was just giving you all an oppertunity to express what you thought to be a viable option to Hell rather than just complain about how unfair God is.

Quote:Sure, I would love to be immortal, to be forever young if you could somehow give me the chance. I can only imagine all the wonders I would witness. Hopefully, I would see humanity go to the stars and build a truly rational civilization. I wonder if atheists who say otherwise aren't expressing disdain for sour grapes.

I honestly think 'going to the stars' is what we are meant to do for eternity.

Quote:Do I spend a lot of time wishing for that or thinking of that possibility? No. The universe isn't going to change just because I want it to. I will grow old and die and that can't be changed.

The universe does not change, you are right there. However what I can not phathom is how persumptious the idea is that 'we' as a people believe we have it all figured out only after a few hundred years of searching. Or at least figured out enough so you can claim that your version of reality is the only one.

Quote: When I do die, what will happen will happen. I'm prepared for the very distinct possibility that this is the only life I'll know, that God gives us one shot at the brass ring and then it's fade-to-black-roll-the-credits.

If there is a God then why would you assume you only get one shot? Why would God operate this way after going though all of the trouble of creation without giving any information as to the nature of the 'brass ring' or that we only have one shot at it?

Quote:I might like to at least get an epilogue but, once again, the universe doesn't give a crap what I want so no use even discussing it.

Replace the word universe with God, and ask yourself the same question. If God does not give a crap about what y

Quote:So why do you even ask?

Again because most of you complain without any point or end goal. If you truly believed that this God had no power I believe there would not be a discussion. I that is why I believe that there is enough doubt in your (generally speaking) mind to want to argue the fairness of Hell.

because, if God can be found 'unjust' or 'immoral' then one is morally obligated NOT to follow Him, thus giving you the appearance of moral justification/Judgement day defense strageity. Which makes me wonder if God's 'a' plan is Hell for those who do not want to be with Him, then what would be the pop morallity version of the 'a' plan.

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(April 21, 2013 at 1:47 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:If you really want proof then just A/S/K.

I asked you. As usual, you have oogatz.

I could provide you with proof, but it would only be a one way ticket.. That is why I refered you to A/S/K as luke 11 point out.

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(April 22, 2013 at 10:05 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: If not Hell then what?

According to the majority of god fearing fools ... Hell is full of engineers and scientists and artisans of all talents. Hell? With such a population I would expect it to be and air-conditioned, landscaped and financially viable place by now. Heaven? full of the worthless portions of humanity to scared to say boo.

I hate to be the refrigeration engineer to burst your bubble but @ or around 125*F the refrigeration process stops for most refrigerants. http://www.rses.org/assets/r410a/620-113.pdf

Not to mention Hell is a void, so unless those people can call into existance all that is needed, then they will be SOL.

(April 22, 2013 at 10:43 am)Drich Wrote: Again because most of you complain without any point or end goal. If you truly believed that this God had no power I believe there would not be a discussion. I that is why I believe that there is enough doubt in your (generally speaking) mind to want to argue the fairness of Hell.

No, the fairness of hell is discussed as an attempt to show believers what a monster of a god they believe in. I mean, I can discuss Mordor without having a doubt about Middle Earth not existing.

Of course, this doesn't work with you, because you seem to enjoy believing in a monster god.

(April 22, 2013 at 10:43 am)Drich Wrote: I was just giving you all an oppertunity to express what you thought to be a viable option to Hell rather than just complain about how unfair God is.

I'm struggling to understand your thinking here. You seem to be asking me for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

If I understand you correctly, this is the "what am I going to do with you" speech. The reason you're never going to get anywhere with this is because there is nothing to justify.

Quote:I honestly think 'going to the stars' is what we are meant to do for eternity.

The universe doesn't care what you think. Belief doesn't make something so.

Quote:However what I can not phathom is how persumptious the idea is that 'we' as a people believe we have it all figured out only after a few hundred years of searching. Or at least figured out enough so you can claim that your version of reality is the only one.

It's the only one we either know of or can prove exists.

I don't "presuppose naturalism" as the accusation often goes. I'm just consistent in my reasoning. You also lack any belief in other supernatural forces that aren't part of your faith. You don't believe in Zeus, Odin or Ra. You reject the Muslim Hell and the Hindu ideas of reincarnation. You just engage in special pleading for your favorite god and afterlife scheme. And then you use argument from ignorance as you imply I have to somehow prove that your alternate reality doesn't exist.

From the moment I open my eyes when I wake to when I close them to go to sleep, the natural world is all we experience and all we can study. No evidence has ever been offered for your favorite brand of supernatural thinking. The burden of proof is on you to convince me why I should take yours or any other brand of superstition seriously.

Quote:If there is a God then why would you assume you only get one shot? Why would God operate this way after going though all of the trouble of creation without giving any information as to the nature of the 'brass ring' or that we only have one shot at it?

I didn't say I assume. I said I'm prepared for the possibility.

I always deal with worst case scenario when confronting my worries. It helps when you realize that even if the worst happens, you can deal with it.

Quote:Again because most of you complain without any point or end goal. If you truly believed that this God had no power I believe there would not be a discussion. I that is why I believe that there is enough doubt in your (generally speaking) mind to want to argue the fairness of Hell.

because, if God can be found 'unjust' or 'immoral' then one is morally obligated NOT to follow Him, thus giving you the appearance of moral justification/Judgement day defense strageity. Which makes me wonder if God's 'a' plan is Hell for those who do not want to be with Him, then what would be the pop morallity version of the 'a' plan.

The problem with your god is not that he isn't just. The problem with your god is that people believe in him. It is not me who requires justification for simply existing and being skeptical of fantastic claims that are backed with no evidence. It is you who need to justify your beliefs and how they are either moral or rational.

Quote:I could provide you with proof, but it would only be a one way ticket.

No, you can't Drippy. All you can do is spout useless pseudo-philosophical babble about your sky-daddy. That is not evidence.


That is bullshit.

(April 22, 2013 at 10:43 am)Drich Wrote: However what I can not phathom is how persumptious the idea is that 'we' as a people believe we have it all figured out only after a few hundred years of searching. Or at least figured out enough so you can claim that your version of reality is the only one.

So you wish to claim that the believer that believes in something made up in a few instances of human imagination has access to a potentially more accurate version of reality?