You make a decision on faith when faced with an existential choice between two apparently equally and plausible paths: belief or atheism. Each has costs and benefits. Nevertheless, the initial choice is irrational. And it is from the chosen position that a person reasons.

Well - there is such a thing as atheistic religion if you count forms of Buddhism.

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(April 27, 2013 at 6:16 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: You make a decision on faith when faced with an existential choice between two apparently equally and plausible paths: belief or atheism. Each has costs and benefits. Nevertheless, the initial choice is irrational. And it is from the chosen position that a person reasons.

Chad! You sound like a cool guy!

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Sorry - I used atheist to refer to the denial of God there

Mia Culpa

I suppose they believe (or hold to know as true) that there is no God...

(April 27, 2013 at 5:50 pm)futilethewinds Wrote:

(April 27, 2013 at 5:06 pm)Dawud Wrote: Does a religion need faith?

As others have stated, there is no strong evidence to support religion, so yes, faith is required.

What if one has an poorly developed system for evidence evaluation, and to the best of his poor abilities assesses the evidence for his religion to be present and sufficient?

Through most of history, presenting shabby or made up evidence to exploit gaps amd weaknesses in the general state of evidence evaluation was the mainstay of religion, not appeal to faith.

Faith only came to the fore when the general state of evidence evaluation has advanced and now seriously threaten to reveal the fraud that is religion, and religion now must dredge muck to retain hold on the intellectual bottom feeders of society.

I think of faith, generic faith, as taking a position with incomplete information. I have faith that the evolution theory is the best description of the process of life on earth, and my faith is based upon an embarrassment of riches in terms of observed data, experimentation, and established biological fact. That faith is neither blind nor absolute. If more evidence is uncovered, properly analyzed, and it produces a result which negates evolution, I have no choice but to abandon the incorrect theory.

Not all faith is equal. Religious faith is inventing an answer based on no information. It is a poisonous combination of ignorance and wishful thinking, where the answers are presupposed and the only reason to ever look for evidence is when someone questions the presupposition (and you are not allowed to kill or silence them). Religious faith treats the presupposition as established fact, and makes it the ultimate crime to deny or challenge its veracity. As is very evident by listening to the likes of Christians on this forum, religious faith takes the word 'knowledge', beats it to death, rapes the corpse, and makes an outfit from the skins, which they wear proudly and insist that it means that their petty delusions are equal to (or greater) than actual, real knowledge derived from critical study and experimentation.

Religious faith is inventing an answer based on no information....

So everyone who is religious does this?

(April 27, 2013 at 6:46 pm)Dawud Wrote: Religious faith is inventing an answer based on no information....

So everyone who is religious does this?

If they take it seriously, then obviously yes.

(April 27, 2013 at 6:55 pm)Ryantology Wrote:

(April 27, 2013 at 6:46 pm)Dawud Wrote: Religious faith is inventing an answer based on no information....

So everyone who is religious does this?

If they take it seriously, then obviously yes.

I would say most of the religious don't invent answers. They just have poor powers of discernment when things said to be answers are presented to them with strings attached.

Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

Ambrose Bierce

(April 27, 2013 at 6:16 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: You make a decision on faith when faced with an existential choice between two apparently equally and plausible paths: belief or atheism. Each has costs and benefits. Nevertheless, the initial choice is irrational. And it is from the chosen position that a person reasons.

You make it sound like the chances are 50/50, either there is a god or there isn't.

But this is like saying your chances of winning the lottery are 50/50, either you'll win or you wont.

This is obviously rubbish.

God is such an unlikely thing to exist that it does not equate to the "not god" view of the universe which is supported by every single piece of verified science.

Faith=I believe I'm a millionaire, I can feel it.

Fact=my pockets and bank are empty.