Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
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Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
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 (May 23, 2013 at 10:25 am)ChadWooters Wrote:(May 22, 2013 at 11:37 pm)smax Wrote: how did you manage to go from Atheism to Christianity using "logic"?It was an existential choice, similar to Kierkegaard. Faith is what you reason from not what you reason to. I see. I guess I'm trying to figure out exactly what kind of Christian you are. To be continued.... ![[Image: earthp.jpg]](http://imageshack.us/photos/my-images/209/earthp.jpg/)
RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 23, 2013 at 3:42 pm
(This post was last modified: May 23, 2013 at 3:43 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 23, 2013 at 10:25 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Faith is what you reason from not what you reason to.A better endorsement of intellectual surrender, of the death of curiosity and self correction..... I could not have imagined.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (May 23, 2013 at 3:42 pm)Rhythm Wrote:The reverse is also true. Disbelief is something you reason from, not something you reason to. Unfortunately I do not believe most atheists extend their beliefs to their logical conclusions. If they did, they would see that, in most cases, it (atheism) reaches a point were it becomes both self-referential and counter-intuitive.(May 23, 2013 at 10:25 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Faith is what you reason from not what you reason to.A better endorsement of intellectual surrender, of the death of curiosity and self correction..... I could not have imagined. RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 23, 2013 at 4:19 pm
(This post was last modified: May 23, 2013 at 4:21 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Still plying these same tired wares? We seem to have n opportunity every few weeks to remind the apologist that lacking a belief in something and having a belief in something are not diametrically opposed, nor equivalent, propositions.
So, I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you on that one. For reasons stated at length, repeatedly (which will be restated, at length, repeatedly). I had no belief in gods, long before I could comfortably say that gods were fanciful bullshit.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 23, 2013 at 4:44 pm
(This post was last modified: May 23, 2013 at 4:45 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
 RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 23, 2013 at 6:34 pm
(This post was last modified: May 23, 2013 at 6:35 pm by Cyberman.)
(May 23, 2013 at 4:44 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: God exists. Absolutely. Problem is, though, the number of people espousing the first view vastly outweighs those subscribing to the second. Sure they exist but they certainly do not represent the most basic and common atheist position, i.e. lacking belief in the god/s du jour. Here's a handy little example to illustrate the point: (May 23, 2013 at 4:06 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Unfortunately I do not believe most atheists extend their beliefs to their logical conclusions. Would you describe this as the lack of belief that most atheists act in that manner, or a positive disbelief that they do not? After that, minor point but could you please tell me what these beliefs of most atheists might be?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 23, 2013 at 7:14 pm
(This post was last modified: May 23, 2013 at 7:15 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 23, 2013 at 4:44 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: God exists. Two positive statements that imply a belief or knowledge. Neither of which deals with an absence of belief. Consider for a moment. I do not believe that ostriches glow in the dark Ostriches do not glow in the dark Though both positions find common ground in an appraisal of reality (and both are accurate) they are not equivalent - and are not "right" for the same reason, or any reason, as stated. Certainly, one -could- reason from a disbelief, that sort of positive statement, if they so chose, but one does not have to. Keep in mind, you're the one that voluntarily pigeonholed your position. To then draw the curtain over the position of others seems- in the friendliest of interpretations- misinformed, and in the worst - well......downright apologetic and deceitful.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
May 23, 2013 at 7:40 pm
(This post was last modified: May 23, 2013 at 7:42 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(May 23, 2013 at 6:34 pm)Stimbo Wrote: ...Would you describe this as the lack of belief that most atheists act in that manner, or a positive disbelief that they do not?...After that, minor point but could you please tell me what these beliefs of most atheists might be?The nuance of the first part eludes me. As for the second, based on the time I have participated, I have noticed common beliefs among atheist members of AF. Strictly defined, atheism is indeed simply a lack of belief in any god or gods. Yet certain beliefs are so widespread that, despite minor exceptions they are practically inseparable from atheism. Three such ideas are as follows: All phenomena can be ultimately be reduced to physical processes. Only empirical observations of natural events and material properties qualify as true knowledge. Non-physical formal properties such a those of mathematics, language, and propositions are abstract concepts without independent validity.
Put in context:
(May 23, 2013 at 6:34 pm)I Wrote:(May 23, 2013 at 4:06 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Unfortunately I do not believe most atheists extend their beliefs to their logical conclusions. You said you don't believe most atheists act in the manner you go on to describe. This would suggest that you lack the belief that they would. I was trying to illustrate the difference between that position and holding a positive belief that most atheists would not act in such a way, thus ascribing to you beliefs that you probably do not hold. As for the rest of your response, what you describe would perhaps more correctly come under the heading of "scepticism", of which atheism is a specialised subset focussing on one subject only. In precisely the same way and for the same reason, it's unfair and unrealistic to label all theists as having the same opinions as Young Earth Creationists, who, while carrying the same basic core beliefs as other theists, also espouse beliefs which are additional to any beliefs regarding gods.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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Poor Fundies.....Hell is A Literary Construct, Too!
