Can't comment. I have so much white guilt I piss milk.

(May 13, 2013 at 3:27 pm)Godschild Wrote: You all want something to be mad about why not join in on the movement to end today's slavery, there are more people in slavery today than anytime in history. One of the sad things about it everyone turns their heads because it doesn't effect them, no different than in the past, we seem to have forgotten our lessons about the horrors of slavery, why, because it's easier to fight about the past. The past has nothing to fight over, it does give us a reason to fight in the present. But we don't, we would rather argue over the past it's so much easier to toss around words, than to actually get out and do something. I do not exclude myself from what I've said.

morality is subjective. if they wish to do it, MY view is no superior to theirs.

(May 27, 2013 at 10:51 am)dazzn Wrote:

(May 13, 2013 at 3:27 pm)Godschild Wrote: You all want something to be mad about why not join in on the movement to end today's slavery, there are more people in slavery today than anytime in history. One of the sad things about it everyone turns their heads because it doesn't effect them, no different than in the past, we seem to have forgotten our lessons about the horrors of slavery, why, because it's easier to fight about the past. The past has nothing to fight over, it does give us a reason to fight in the present. But we don't, we would rather argue over the past it's so much easier to toss around words, than to actually get out and do something. I do not exclude myself from what I've said.

morality is subjective. if they wish to do it, MY view is no superior to theirs.

I'm quoting this as future proof that you believe morals exist... (thanks)
.

i don't believe that morals exist.

(May 27, 2013 at 11:08 am)dazzn Wrote: i don't believe that morals exist.

Your words betray you.

"Morality is subjective" < Your words there... (notice the key word "is" implicitly states it's existence)

(May 27, 2013 at 11:08 am)dazzn Wrote: i don't believe that morals exist.

Of course they exist. You are embodying all the worse assumptions uninformed theists have about the morals of atheists. Morals exist and are subjective in nature but there just so happens to be large areas of agreement. We don't need gods to make sense of morals, and there is no need for them to be objective.

Are you also a nihilist regarding what you eat? "Taste is an illusion so just give me anything that won't kill me." Both your gustatory preferences and your moral proclivities are brute facts about yourself regardless of how you acquired them. Should you examine them critically? Yes, of course. Should you assume they are arbitrary and interchangeable? No, because they're not. You can go ahead and eat liver and lima beans but you can't decide to enjoy it if you really don't. Just because your preferences are subjective doesn't mean they aren't real. There is an enormous amount of who you are that is not up to you, that is discovered rather than decided.

(May 27, 2013 at 11:13 am)catfish Wrote:

(May 27, 2013 at 11:08 am)dazzn Wrote: i don't believe that morals exist.

Your words betray you.

"Morality is subjective" < Your words there... (notice the key word "is" implicitly states it's existence)

People contradict.

---

(May 27, 2013 at 11:28 am)whateverist Wrote:

(May 27, 2013 at 11:08 am)dazzn Wrote: i don't believe that morals exist.

Of course they exist. You are embodying all the worse assumptions uninformed theists have about the morals of atheists. Morals exist and are subjective in nature but there just so happens to be large areas of agreement. We don't need gods to make sense of morals, and there is no need for them to be objective.

Are you also a nihilist regarding what you eat? "Taste is an illusion so just give me anything that won't kill me." Both your gustatory preferences and your moral proclivities are brute facts about yourself regardless of how you acquired them. Should you examine them critically? Yes, of course. Should you assume they are arbitrary and interchangeable? No, because they're not. You can go ahead and eat liver and lima beans but you can't decide to enjoy it if you really don't. Just because your preferences are subjective doesn't mean they aren't real. There is an enormous amount of who you are that is not up to you, that is discovered rather than decided.

It depends. I don't think morality is needed. who can make a case stating as such?

(May 27, 2013 at 11:30 am)dazzn Wrote: I don't think morality is needed. who can make a case stating as such?

I take it you are asking if anyone can make the case that morality is needed. That depends.

If you mean is morality needed to make sense of human affairs generally, then yes it is. If you mean does every human being need morals as much as they need some vital organ, then no.

Humans without much moral impulse are a part of our gene pool and may, as some suggest, make the species more viable. For the most part we are a species of interdependence which thrives to the degree that every individual places the good of the whole above their own. But in hard times, if every individual was tied into serving the common good, whole civilizations could perish if all were willing to "go down with the ship". Having a minority who are purely self motivated and self serving could serve as an escape valve. So long as they go on breeding their own kind as a greatly recessive trait, new communities can arise with lots of pro-social normals which are needed for a human community to thrive.

Without the phenomenon of morality and its predominance in our species many aspects of our civilization are probably not possible. So yes, morality is needed.

(May 27, 2013 at 12:22 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(May 27, 2013 at 11:30 am)dazzn Wrote: I don't think morality is needed. who can make a case stating as such?

I take it you are asking if anyone can make the case that morality is needed. That depends.

If you mean is morality needed to make sense of human affairs generally, then yes it is. If you mean does every human being need morals as much as they need some vital organ, then no.

Humans without much moral impulse are a part of our gene pool and may, as some suggest, make the species more viable. For the most part we are a species of interdependence which thrives to the degree that every individual places the good of the whole above their own. But in hard times, if every individual was tied into serving the common good, whole civilizations could perish if all were willing to "go down with the ship". Having a minority who are purely self motivated and self serving could serve as an escape valve. So long as they go on breeding their own kind as a greatly recessive trait, new communities can arise with lots of pro-social normals which are needed for a human community to thrive.

Without the phenomenon of morality and its predominance in our species many aspects of our civilization are probably not possible. So yes, morality is needed.

if people wish to hurt others, it's their own business.

(May 27, 2013 at 12:25 pm)dazzn Wrote:

(May 27, 2013 at 12:22 pm)whateverist Wrote: I take it you are asking if anyone can make the case that morality is needed. That depends.

If you mean is morality needed to make sense of human affairs generally, then yes it is. If you mean does every human being need morals as much as they need some vital organ, then no.

Humans without much moral impulse are a part of our gene pool and may, as some suggest, make the species more viable. For the most part we are a species of interdependence which thrives to the degree that every individual places the good of the whole above their own. But in hard times, if every individual was tied into serving the common good, whole civilizations could perish if all were willing to "go down with the ship". Having a minority who are purely self motivated and self serving could serve as an escape valve. So long as they go on breeding their own kind as a greatly recessive trait, new communities can arise with lots of pro-social normals which are needed for a human community to thrive.

Without the phenomenon of morality and its predominance in our species many aspects of our civilization are probably not possible. So yes, morality is needed.

if people wish to hurt others, it's their own business.

Are you a real person or just a theist spambot?