(May 27, 2013 at 11:33 am)dazzn Wrote: dog breeds are just like human races. german sherperds, pitbulls, chiauhauas and yorkshire terriers are all the same species, just as blacks and whites comprise the same species with minimal genetic difference. how is that evolution?

(May 27, 2013 at 12:05 pm)dazzn Wrote: yes, mutations over time enable organisms to exploit niches.

Close. Evolution basically means change over time. The theory of evolution postulates that this occurs because of small changes shaped by natural selection. Darwin observed that the breeding of domestic animals like dogs and cows used artificial selection, the intentional selection of specific genetic stock in breeding and used it as as an analogy for natural selection, which was the unintentional selection of specific genetic stock as a result of differential reproductive fitness (relative to specific environments). Thus artificial selection is an analogue of natural selection. (You should note that the difference is largely one of name only, as humans are a natural part of the environment as well. For example, there is a crab in Japanese waters whose back or carapace resembles the face of a man. It is hypothesized that those crabs whose backs looked more man-like were thrown back more often than those that were less man-like. Over time, this allowed those that were more man-like to proliferate at the expense of their lesser kin, resulting in the man-like appearance predominating. Thus while the effect was unintentional, the selection was done by humans.)

(The first chapter of Darwin's Origin Of Species is titled .)

(May 27, 2013 at 11:33 am)dazzn Wrote: dog breeds are just like human races. german sherperds, pitbulls, chiauhauas and yorkshire terriers are all the same species, just as blacks and whites comprise the same species with minimal genetic difference. how is that evolution?

Those differences were cultivated over time via selective breeding and such. That's genetic variation, and you wouldn't get that if evolution wasn't a true thing that happens. Apo said it better than me (and with a cool crab example! ) but there you go.

(May 26, 2013 at 7:20 am)pocaracas Wrote: As for MS, here are some that made it to medical history books....I wonder how you'd expect these kinds of deformities reach a large enough popultion so as to make it likely for us to find a fossil of it...
http://www.weirdworm.com/8-weird-human-mutations/

Wrong, I'm asking for non-sense mutations that lasted for generations!

Quote:dog breeds are just like human races.

Actually, dog breeds are an example of "design" since they were all created by humans.

As to how "intelligent" that design is well......

http://www.petmd.com/dog/care/evr_dg_pur...aROuJxShQE

Quote:The main problem with purebreds stems from the simple fact that to create a purebred puppy you need two dogs from the exact same gene pool. This gene pool is already limited, but many breeders will use dogs from the same family gene pool to create more dogs (inbreeding). Dog clubs often require that their dogs be bred within the same club, which again ends up severely limiting the gene pool variety. As many of these gene pools are limited or closed, the risk of genetic defects rises significantly with each successive coupling.

Defects include a higher risk of cancer and tumors; eye and heart disease; joint and bone disorders; skin, immune system and neurological diseases; and even epilepsy.

When nature was letting wolves evolve it did a fine job. It took humanity to fuck things up.

(May 28, 2013 at 2:07 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: Wrong, I'm asking for non-sense mutations that lasted for generations!

THE COLOSSAL SQUID HAS A DONUT SHAPED BRAIN, WITH ITS ESOPHAGUS RUNNING THROUGH THE CENTER WHOLE. IF IT EATS SOMETHING LARGER THAN THE HOLE, IT WILL DAMAGE ITS BRAIN.

I've been posting this shit for days now; how much more nonsensical do you want it, you dishonest fuck?

It's "center hole"

There are a few non-sense mutations that stick around, like the laryngeal nerve, which reaches a ridiculous round trip length on a giraffe.

But most, as I pointed out on a paper from '94, will disappear within, at most, 80 generations.... that is if the mutation isn't that much non-sense that it prevents mating.
Now, given that very few individuals from any population get that mutation and couple that with the odds of any given animal to become a fossil, how likely do you think it will be for us to find a non-sense fossilized individual, instead of a "normal" individual?

(May 28, 2013 at 4:56 am)pocaracas Wrote: It's "center hole"

There are a few non-sense mutations that stick around, like the laryngeal nerve, which reaches a ridiculous round trip length on a giraffe.

But most, as I pointed out on a paper from '94, will disappear within, at most, 80 generations.... that is if the mutation isn't that much non-sense that it prevents mating.
Now, given that very few individuals from any population get that mutation and couple that with the odds of any given animal to become a fossil, how likely do you think it will be for us to find a non-sense fossilized individual, instead of a "normal" individual?

There's really no use: I posted that laryngeal nerve fact a few pages back, and our esteemed "Scholar" just ignores it, because it doesn't fit into the narrative he wants to propose. This is really more a question of intellectual sport to me, at this point.

PS: a thousand posts! Woo!

(May 28, 2013 at 3:25 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(May 28, 2013 at 2:07 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: Wrong, I'm asking for non-sense mutations that lasted for generations!

THE COLOSSAL SQUID HAS A DONUT SHAPED BRAIN, WITH ITS ESOPHAGUS RUNNING THROUGH THE CENTER WHOLE. IF IT EATS SOMETHING LARGER THAN THE HOLE, IT WILL DAMAGE ITS BRAIN.

I've been posting this shit for days now; how much more nonsensical do you want it, you dishonest fuck?

non-sense mutations are not non-perfect organs
my proposition has 2 aspects
Members with non-sense mutations must out number all others and they must be found in the fossil records.

FFS, for someone who claims to be a "scholar", you sure are not paying attention to class!!

Non-beneficial mutations, if the individual carrying them manages to mate, are cast out of the population within, at most, 80 generations.... read the paper, it's FREE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33757/

(May 28, 2013 at 5:42 am)pocaracas Wrote: FFS, for someone who claims to be a "scholar", you sure are not paying attention to class!!

Non-beneficial mutations, if the individual carrying them manages to mate, are cast out of the population within, at most, 80 generations.... read the paper, it's FREE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC33757/

I saw this article years before, it is ridiculous
Non-beneficial mutation can stay for 1000s of generations, because natural selection cannot predict that it will be non-beneficial, harmful or beneficial

Don't you get the point?