I've written before about how the GOP's Overton Window is rapidly moving further and further to the right, to where W Bush, once the icon of the right wing in America, now looks like a moderate and Ronald Reagan, the patron saint of the GOP, is in reality so liberal that his clone would un-electable in a GOP primary today. Conservatives and other members of the GOP will reject that idea. Frankly, it seems to me like conservatives don't have a long-term memory function and can't seem to accurately recall anything that happened more than a few years ago, so such gradual political change is something they can't discern. They insist that this sort of thing is relative and it's actually people like me that have moved far to the left.

Well, we now have an artifact from 1996 that proves my thesis. It turns out that Bob Dole's campaign website form 1996 is still up and stands like a time capsule from this bygone era. It's also, by the way, a bit of a reminder of what the websites in the 90s were like. By perusing the site, the reader can get a feel for what Republican politics were like at that time (15-20 years ago) and compare them to today.

Bob Dole wasn't like John McCain, a supposed "maverick" who was willing to buck his own party, or like Mitt Romney, a supposed "moderate" willing to reach across the aisle (whether or not these other two lived up to their reputation is another issue, one that I won't go into here). He was an icon of his party at that time, a fair representation of conservatism in the 80s and 90s.

Now, there are some familiar themes in Dole's website, of course. There are mantras about cutting taxes and railings about "anti-business Democrats" but there are also startling positions that would be completely unacceptable to the GOP today.

For example, in his civil rights record, he boasts of supporting civil rights acts that the GOP wants to get rid of today, including the "Voting Rights Act". He promises "As President, Bob Dole will continue his strong commitment to protecting the civil rights of all Americans" and states flatly that "...Bob Dole believes that we have made great strides to end discrimination in this country, but that we still have much work to do."

How about the environment. In an era of "drill, baby, drill", the GOP today rails against any environmental legislation as a "job killing bill". Yet "Bob Dole has always understood the key role that the federal government plays in protecting the environment." The website promises that Bob Dole as president would, among other things... "Continue to support the development of non-polluting electric vehicles and cleaner alternative fuels as he has done since the 1970s." WHAT? Adopt a visionary approach to our energy issues? What is he, some kind of socialist?

Bob Dole's page on health care sounds like he's a socialist who would advocate Obamacare.

Take this trip through time and see for yourself.

The first time I heard of opposition to Obamacare, I didn't even know what it was, I thought it was a proposal for some kind of universal healthcare system, I thought maybe that's why the rednecks were so worked up. But when I found out what it was I was shocked. America still has a looong way to go in getting socialized medicine, which is the only efficient way of taking care of everyone who needs healthcare. I think Obamacare is just the first step, hopefully the Dems will push through universal healthcare after 2016.

(May 29, 2013 at 9:30 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Frankly, it seems to me like conservatives don't have a long-term memory function and can't seem to accurately recall anything that happened more than a few years ago, so such gradual political change is something they can't discern. They insist that this sort of thing is relative and it's actually people like me that have moved far to the left.

Excellent observation. This same group of people, by and large, have also been responsible for altering the image and message of Gospel Christ to the point where Gospel Christ and American Evangelical Christ would hardly recognize one aother in a chance encounter.

And yet the GOP, despite it's claims of being for small government, has continued to grow it. Lurch to the left more like

Bob Dole was interviewed just the other day and said virtually the same thing.

He, Eisenhower, Reagan and Nixon could not have existed in today's republicunt party.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-new.../#52026753

(May 29, 2013 at 11:33 am)Stue Denim Wrote: And yet the GOP, despite it's claims of being for small government, has continued to grow it. Lurch to the left more like

And does whatever you call the left demand the discrimination of homosexuals, institution of theocracy and other backwards nonsence?!

If a political movement is right wing or left wing, is not determined by if it wants "big goverment" (absolutly idiotic term) or not! And you should get over that!

(May 29, 2013 at 11:33 am)Stue Denim Wrote: And yet the GOP, despite it's claims of being for small government, has continued to grow it. Lurch to the left more like

You're alluding to a different measure, one that involves not a one-dimensional left-right spectrum but a two-dimensional one that also includes an authoritarian/libertarian spectrum. But yes, the GOP has been creating a more intrusive government, just one that wants to get into the bedroom rather than the boardroom.

Actually Germans, yes, our (Australian) labor party and prime ministers have been awful on gay rights and on not establishing a theocracy. And their other policies? I have no issues with calling them backwards nonsense.

Obama's only recently 'evolved' and there are video's of Hilary Clinton & Harry Reid being pretty bigoted in terms of gay marriage if you care to search for em (not anymore of course, oh no, they've all seen the light)

Eh, I would argue that the traditional one dimensional left/right spectrum attempts to encompass many issues, both fiscal and social, which does tend to make it fairly useless.
Yup, whichever way you vote, the hand of government always seems to intrude ever deeper into your pants. It's either after you wallet or your happy fun time parts, or commonly, both. (once it's in there though, it's easy for it to take whatever takes its fancy, no?)
And more medicare, and more bailouts, and more subsidies...

Quote:And yet the GOP, despite it's claims of being for small government, has continued to grow it.

Odd....I ascribe that to the GOP simply being full of shit. Amazing how point of view changes everything.

(May 29, 2013 at 12:41 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: Actually Germans, yes, our (Australian) labor party and prime ministers have been awful on gay rights and on not establishing a theocracy.

Sorry to bring you the news: Australia is not the world.

Nore does it provide a standard on which the worlds political movements can be called right wing or left wing.

Egyptian conservatives legalised female circumcision
German conservatives have more female members than any other party in Germany
British conservatives legalised gay marrige
South African Left wingers privatised the entire natural resources industry of their country
German left wingers cut social spending and privatised parts of the state economy.
American right wingers are strong supporters of Israel
Hungarian right winger believe there is a Jewish conspiracy to make Hungary the second Israel.

There is absolutly no international standard on determining the political possition of a party, only local ones which keep account of the regional specifications of culture, history and politics.

And if a party wants to establish greater federal power or cut it, is certainly not the standard.

It is simply named by you as the standard so you can possition yourself as standing above everything else.

Quote:And their other policies? I have no issues with calling them backwards nonsense.

Irrelevant what you may think, Australian politics are not a international standard on which political movements arround the world orientate themselves.

Quote:Obama's only recently 'evolved' and there are video's of Hilary Clinton & Harry Reid being pretty bigoted in terms of gay marriage if you care to search for em (not anymore of course, oh no, they've all seen the light)

Gay rights is also not the international standard.

Quote:Eh, I would argue that the traditional one dimensional left/right spectrum attempts to encompass many issues.

No it does not. Your proposal of determening if a political movement is right wing or left wing, by asserting it through standards set by yourself which then leads to the movements possition being determined through if you aprove of it`s policies or not - is the one sided one, because it ignores all other factors.

Quote:And more medicare, and more bailouts, and more subsidies...

Just like I thought.

You have no interest in determening a political movements alligance to the right or left, you simply judge them over wether you can aprove of them or not through your own view.