(June 7, 2013 at 12:11 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Yes, I have some physical quantities.... nothing of the sort on imaginary beings.
But you failed to answer the question:
On a world with no god, how would people become aware of any god?

I did not know you asked such a question.
The answer is easy. You become aware of Him the same way everyone else has since He told us how to. you Ask, Seek, and Knock as outlined in Luke 11

(June 7, 2013 at 9:48 am)Drich Wrote: I was under the impression we were presupposing that there is no god.... where do such spirits come from?

The bible tell us that Satan and 1/3 of the angels were cast out. These are the deceiving spirits the bible tells us to gaurd against.

I would say there is not other deity/gods, but I am not so foolish to say there is nothing else out there besides man and God. A deceiving spirit by defination could set himself up as a god to someone or make someone a prophet.

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(June 7, 2013 at 1:08 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: I guess my question is why when a hurricane hits New Orleans or an earthquake hits San Francisco, it's God's divine punishment for evil people, but when tornadoes level bible belt communities, they're just natural disasters?

Are you serious?

Do you know know what media manipulation is?

If you were determined you could find some dbag saying that every unfavoriable natural occourance is God punishing someone... Like wise you can find the same type of person to tell you an unfavoriable event is a blessing somehow. Some producer somewhere makes a desision (based on what he thinks will bring the best ratings for his news cast) whether or not to include a judgement or blessing guy.

If you want to push the idea that katrina was God punishing New Orleans then find Book Chapter and verse that says he will do this. Otherwise know, 'street preachers' do not always repersent biblical Christianity

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(June 7, 2013 at 1:08 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote:

(June 7, 2013 at 1:05 pm)Drich Wrote: Letting a loved one hit/seek bottom is not indifference. It is the strongest love one can exhibit for a love one just short of dying for them. (Which God did so you were allowed to seek/hit bottom.)

So god is dead?

Have you not heard the Good New?!?!

Christ died for your sins (He was Nailed on a Cross) and on the third Day Rose from the Gave, thus conquering Sin and Death!

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(June 7, 2013 at 1:17 pm)LostLocke Wrote:

(June 7, 2013 at 1:05 pm)Drich Wrote: Letting a loved one hit/seek bottom is not indifference. It is the strongest love one can exhibit for a love one just short of dying for them. (Which God did so you were allowed to seek/hit bottom.)

So, if you were standing on a street corner waiting for the light to change, and someone mindlessly started walking into traffic because they were busy texting on their iPods, you would just let them go thinking that maybe 'that'll learn em', and next time they won't be so oblivious?

It depends.

On whether or not I was willing to watch over and care for every step of their recovery and reintergration into soceity... For most people I would stop them, because I dont have that kind of time nor those resources. But, God does and has let many people learn that lesson.

It's my goal to let someone step out in front of a bus one day!

(June 7, 2013 at 2:01 pm)Drich Wrote:

(June 7, 2013 at 1:08 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: I guess my question is why when a hurricane hits New Orleans or an earthquake hits San Francisco, it's God's divine punishment for evil people, but when tornadoes level bible belt communities, they're just natural disasters?

If you were determined you could find some dbag saying that every unfavoriable natural occourance is God punishing someone...

You don't have to go as far as Fred Phelps to find people saying that. I think even Pat Robertson claimed that Katrina was retribution for the people of New Orleans' sinful ways and that it was because of tolerance of homosexuality. Just read fstdt.com once in a while and you'll see all sorts of comments like that. Last time there was an earthquake in California fundies were claiming that it was God's punishment.

Yet tornadoes continue to strike Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Missouri which are heavily Christian bible belt areas, yet no Christians (aside from the WBC douchebags) seem to be claiming that this is also God's divine punishment. No, people there want to give thanks to God for sparing their lives, even though everything they own was destroyed along with their community.

Quote:find Book Chapter and verse that says he will do this.

All I'd have to do is find one of the many verses which say that God will spill his wrath upon the evil for their iniquity. The entire Old Testament is, well, a testament for the idea of a vengeful, wrathful God.

(June 7, 2013 at 1:41 pm)orogenicman Wrote:

(June 7, 2013 at 1:05 pm)Drich Wrote: Letting a loved one hit/seek bottom is not indifference. It is the strongest love one can exhibit for a love one just short of dying for them. (Which God did so you were allowed to seek/hit bottom.)

As someone who hit bottom four hears ago, I have to say that that is the most idiotic piece of drivel I've read in a long time.

As someone who had to let someone hit bottom a few times, I can most certainly say it was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

People on your end of addiction RARLY know the pain and sacerfice you put your loved ones through. The fact that you do not or will not recognise what your family had to endure while you were getting your sh*t together speaks volumes on the reason you responded the way that you did.

-And?

(June 7, 2013 at 1:52 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(June 7, 2013 at 8:39 am)Drich Wrote: You do know the only place without the Abrahamic God is Hell right??

So he's not actually omnipresent and his presence isn't necessary for something to be sustained, right?

God is present in all of creation. What day was Hell created on? Rather Hell is the absents of creation. That is why it is refered to and the void or great pit. It is an endless emptiness.

lol.....and?

(June 7, 2013 at 2:01 pm)Drich Wrote:

(June 7, 2013 at 12:11 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Yes, I have some physical quantities.... nothing of the sort on imaginary beings.
But you failed to answer the question:
On a world with no god, how would people become aware of any god?

I did not know you asked such a question.
The answer is easy. You become aware of Him the same way everyone else has since He told us how to. you Ask, Seek, and Knock as outlined in Luke 11

(June 7, 2013 at 9:48 am)Drich Wrote: I was under the impression we were presupposing that there is no god.... where do such spirits come from?

The bible tell us that Satan and 1/3 of the angels were cast out. These are the deceiving spirits the bible tells us to gaurd against.

I would say there is not other deity/gods, but I am not so foolish to say there is nothing else out there besides man and God. A deceiving spirit by defination could set himself up as a god to someone or make someone a prophet.

Oh nonononononono
You're not getting off that easy!
This thread has the title "In a world without god".
So the working hypothesis is "there is no god".
Under this hypothesis, any holy book is automatically man-made fiction.
"bible says" has no bearing whatsoever.

How do you answer the questions, under this hypothesis that you yourself included in this thread?

(June 7, 2013 at 2:01 pm)Drich Wrote:

(June 7, 2013 at 1:08 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote: So god is dead?

Have you not heard the Good New?!?!

Christ died for your sins (He was Nailed on a Cross) and on the third Day Rose from the Gave, thus conquering Sin and Death!

If he died, then he couldn't rise from the grave. Because then he isn't dead anymore, so it's like he never really died. Which makes the whole cross thing kinda like pointless torture.

See, here's the deal. If he died, and stayed dead and was sent to hell for eternity to pay for my sins, I can see where you might call that a sacrifice. But he died, then was resurrected (alive again) and now sits in heaven at gods right hand. But he died for my sins which means he took on my sins (and those of all mankind) which means he is no longer righteous and, according to your bible, has no place in heaven.

That's not a sacrifice. That's a Broadway show.

(June 7, 2013 at 3:41 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote: That's not a sacrifice. That's a Broadway show.

http://youtu.be/WLKk00OYKhU

Exactly. What kind of sacrifice is it when Jesus rose from the dead to sit in Heaven, and eventually return to earth? And especially since Christians get to spend eternity with him when they die?

And again, why would such a sacrifice even be needed when God is supposedly the all-powerful creator of the universe? If he wanted to forgive everyone, he could just do it instead of coming up with this convoluted "I forgive you but only if you worship my son" nonsense.