(June 12, 2013 at 12:30 pm)Faith No More Wrote: It is my "estimation" that Christians make a decision about a person's beliefs without having enough knowledge to truly judge if their beliefs were genuine.

No judgement was made here. The person being discussed identified that they were not worshiping the God of the bible, and that they did was driven by a personal sense of spirituality loosly based on christianity.

All I did was pair that admission with what the God of the bible had to say about that condition.

Quote:How many Christians do you know that knowingly worship a god that is not represented by the bible? Every Christian thinks they have the correct interpretation.

..and that is all that is required. Is to be all in, and humble enough to change if and when in your worship you come across a thou shalt not.

The only time one falls under what Christ describes in Mt 7 is when that person openly ignores a thou shalt not in their worship, or is simply going through the motions of Christianity..

By motions I mean to say one can fervently and with great zeal do good things in the name of God as Christ points out. But, they do not have nor ever really established a relationship with God.

(June 12, 2013 at 2:25 pm)Drich Wrote: But, they do not have nor ever really established a relationship with God.

Having a personal relationship with God is like having a personal relationship with a leprechaun, because the relationship will always only be one sided.

(June 12, 2013 at 12:36 pm)Rationalman Wrote: Are these stories meant to be some sort of proof that god talked to you. Well i'm sorry but they are not evidence of anything.

They are not meant to be evidence of anything. You asked a Question. Did you talk to God? with in those two threads lies my answer.

Quote:They are not demonstrable to anyone else and they cannot be repeated. And didn't you say that god can only talk to you through the bible, but you said he did in your hallucination.

Only? No. I said No personal revelation can be trumped by what is in the bible.

Quote: Or was it that you cannot understand him unless its in the bible?

Again, No. My comperhension of the God of the Bible begins and ends with the bible. The bible is the measure of all things 'spiritual.' Meaning My understanding of God is verified through scripture. If I have a personal revelation then it must not contradict the bible other wise it can be dismissed no matter how real.

Quote:To be honest I didn't really bother properly reading your stories because I instantly knew there would be no point. It is evidence for you but not for anyone else

YES! You are right!! So why do I share? It's not like I have been ear marked or considered special by God. I simply took Him up on the promises He made in the bible, and this was my result. I share these stories so as to help people connect with their own version of what I experienced, so they too can receive the personal proof God has for each and every one of us.

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Quote:Only just finished reading both your stories and i have come to the conclusion that you are either a liar or schizophrenic.

Maybe your right, and maybe it is as i said it was. The surest way to find out is take God up on what He has promised.

Quote:Don't you think it a little odd that when any religious person dies and comes back they see what they believe e.g. Christians see heaven and God, Muslims see allah and paradise. I think you are suffering from schizophrenia, please go get your head look at

I guess you are the liar, and did not actually read either one of those threads. As I did not see Heaven/Paradise.

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(June 12, 2013 at 12:53 pm)Ryantology Wrote: Like the part where Jesus insists that his followers adhere to Mosaic law until Heaven and Earth are gone,

BCV? Where was that?

Quote: but then you interpret this very clear and repeated command to suggest that what he really meant was that you don't even have to bother trying because you want to believe that all you have to do is ask for forgiveness, so that's what will you insist he's actually saying, because you either find Mosaic law to be too barbaric and your God-given conscience balks at fulfilling about half of what is demanded of you, or because the strength of your faith in the eternal is not strong enough to overcome your desire to not spend the rest of your finite life in prison.

First you must establish that Christ said what you claim, then you must reconsile all of the other verses in said bible that seem to go against your understanding of what Christ said, before you can preach this message.

If you want some help I can provide with BCV on all of the verses that condradict your message/understanding of what you think Christ said.

Quote:
You're choosing to interpret the Bible in such a way that makes it easier on you; you can say to yourself that you worship the God of the Bible, but your worship of the Bible is every bit as tailored to your own desires as every other Christian I've ever known, and according to yourself, practicing your faith that way is only going to lead to Jesus looking at you when it is time for your judgement and telling you that you said all the right things but you did not even bother making a token effort to uphold the commandments as he requested in his sermon, therefore, your love for Christ was really nothing more than selfish piety, looking out for yourself before Christ, and you'll end up in hell right along with all of us.

If this is true then I will indeed have hell to pay and will welcome it, this time around. As in my understanding of everything I have studied and read over the last 20 years has lead me to rebuild my beliefs several times, (Several different denominations of faith) and maybe before i die several times more. I leave nothing in reserve, as all of my understanding, all of my strength, all of my heart, and all of my spirit has gone into my belief, for the singular purpose of Loving The God of the bible, first and then my neighbor as my self. With that said if all I am is not good enough then I will find contentment in Hell because I know there was nothing else for me to give. Nothing was held back. I had been faithful to what I have been given.

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(June 12, 2013 at 1:46 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Wouldn't this handily explain why the "god of the bible" is nowhere to be found? Perhaps our imaginary god doesn't wish to reinforce that woefully ignorant view of itself?

Your understanding is lacking princess. Fore what of those who are positivly reinforced when they do find that narrow road?

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(June 12, 2013 at 2:31 pm)Maelstrom Wrote:

(June 12, 2013 at 2:25 pm)Drich Wrote: But, they do not have nor ever really established a relationship with God.

Having a personal relationship with God is like having a personal relationship with a leprechaun, because the relationship will always only be one sided.

..and you know this how? Because it is one sided with you???

Do you really see yourself as the one and only true standard in which the whole universe is measured? Because you don't know God, you think God is unknowable?

(June 12, 2013 at 2:36 pm)Drich Wrote: Because you don't know God, you think God is unknowable?

There is no God to know.

(June 12, 2013 at 2:36 pm)Drich Wrote: I guess you are the liar, and did not actually read either one of those threads. As I did not see Heaven/Paradise.

No, I am not a liar, you said you saw Jesus, who is God, and this is part of your belief. I said that people of different religions see what they believe when they supposedly die and come back e.g. Christians see God and heaven, Muslims see Allah and paradise. You saw God, this is part of your belief, therefore I am not a liar.

You mean like muslims, or hindus, or christians Drich? Deceiving spirits, self delusion, rebellion- too easy. I suppose that's the trouble with imagining a whole host of things. Some of it ends up stepping on it's own toes.

(June 12, 2013 at 10:02 am)Faith No More Wrote:

(June 12, 2013 at 9:39 am)Drich Wrote:

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Is it you experet opinion that everyone who calls them self christian actually are? Doesn't God have a say in the matter or do you think an all powerful God is bound by some chant/sinners prayer or ritual?

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No, it is my "experet" opinion that Christians will quickly go to great lengths to discredit the sincerity and validity of an ex-Christian's beliefs rather than consider that their religion failed someone.

I do not think that's all together true, if a Christian decides to leave the faith because they just can't accept it then we have nothing more to say. However in the cases of those here who have shared their stories of leaving the faith an we see that they may not have actually come to know Christ, what do you think we should do, let a possible false belief become a representation of Christianity. Would you do that if someone came here and said they left their belief in evolution because of something that's not true to the science you understand. No, you would jump on it faster than a duck jumps on a junebug.

Whether one accepts evolution as fact or not has no bearing on whether evolution is factual. The evidence is abundant and speaks for itself. It requires no special understanding to accept. You do not have to a/s/k according to a vague passage in a book for answers that can never be verified, nor risk the possibility that you a/s/k exactly as proscribed and come away with nothing.

Drich personally informed me that my Christian experience failed because I didn't a/s/k properly. Evolution makes no such demand. The evidence is not only available to those who assume ahead of time that the concept is certain truth. It is available, in full and without restriction, for even those who are most stringently in denial of reality.

We might very well 'jump on' someone who denied science, but the difference between science and Christianity is that one is rooted in physical evidence, and one is rooted in tales entirely indistinguishable from fiction. Your beliefs are beneath anything revealed by physical evidence.

(June 12, 2013 at 4:40 pm)Ryantology Wrote: Whether one accepts evolution as fact or not has no bearing on whether evolution is factual. The evidence is abundant and speaks for itself. It requires no special understanding to accept. You do not have to a/s/k according to a vague passage in a book for answers that can never be verified, nor risk the possibility that you a/s/k exactly as proscribed and come away with nothing.

Drich personally informed me that my Christian experience failed because I didn't a/s/k properly. Evolution makes no such demand. The evidence is not only available to those who assume ahead of time that the concept is certain truth. It is available, in full and without restriction, for even those who are most stringently in denial of reality.

We might very well 'jump on' someone who denied science, but the difference between science and Christianity is that one is rooted in physical evidence, and one is rooted in tales entirely indistinguishable from fiction. Your beliefs are beneath anything revealed by physical evidence.

I do not accept evolution period, I believe it's made up science without anything to prove it.

(June 12, 2013 at 5:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: I do not accept evolution period, I believe it's made up science without anything to prove it.

You are clearly confusing evolution with God.