(June 14, 2013 at 5:34 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: How do you judge this to be unjust? On what grounds?

Humanity, which the theistic god clearly lacks despite having so many human characteristics.

This might be off topic. If god gives us free will, can see the future, and then judges us on a action that we don't actually commit yet... that seems pretty unjust to me.

(June 14, 2013 at 5:32 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: I do not wear rose colored glasses while reading it as the theists do.

Well I scrutinize it as thoroughly as possible and never have I seen what you're asserting. Without proof from you we'll have to disregard your assertion.

(June 14, 2013 at 5:40 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Without proof from you we'll have to disregard your assertion.

The proof that god is a veritable psychopath has been clearly stated many times on this forum. Do not blame your ignorance on me, for it is your responsibility to educate yourself in regards to the bible's true heinous nature.

(June 14, 2013 at 5:37 pm)Savannahw Wrote: This might be off topic. If god gives us free will, can see the future, and then judges us on a action that we don't actually commit yet... that seems pretty unjust to me.

Hey Savannah. Seems on topic to me!

How is it unjust? That was your future and you were judged on it. You're point of view as a time bound being doesn't alter the facts. Maybe you would cause more suffering than anything previously known and humanity would never recover. What justice would that be on your fellow humans?

Where God is just, we have to understand his actions to be just.

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(June 14, 2013 at 5:43 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: The proof that god is a veritable psychopath has been clearly stated many times on this forum. Do not blame your ignorance on me, for it is your responsibility to educate yourself in regards to the bible's true heinous nature.

Many times claimed never once demonstrated. One credible piece of evidence would make you very famous. Please don't be modest. (Though I might understand you might want to claim your rights to it before making it public knowledge here).

(June 14, 2013 at 5:48 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Many times claimed never once demonstrated.

Ironic, considering theists seem to have the same problem in regards to God's supposedly perfect morality.

(June 14, 2013 at 5:34 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: God knows the future, so he knew those lives and could judge fairly at what point justice needed to be served.
How do you judge this to be unjust? On what grounds?

Holy kittens, fr0d0 just crapped the bed!

So, let me get this straight. God allowed a woman to conceive a child that god knew since the beginning of time deserved the death penalty for something really bad it was going to do. So he went ahead and let the baby be born just so he could kill it while it was still a baby?

That's the most freakingly awesome evilist sick shit ever!

Urhm... Why didn't he kill Hitler, or Jeffrey Dahmer, or John Wayne Gacy as babies then?

(June 14, 2013 at 5:55 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: Ironic, considering theists seem to have the same problem in regards to God's supposedly perfect morality.

Seriously? Hit me up dude.

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(June 14, 2013 at 5:55 pm)Rahul Wrote: So, let me get this straight. God allowed a woman to conceive a child that god knew since the beginning of time deserved the death penalty for something really bad it was going to do. So he went ahead and let the baby be born just so he could kill it while it was still a baby?

That's the most freakingly awesome evilist sick shit ever!

Urhm... Why didn't he kill Hitler, or Jeffrey Dahmer, or John Wayne Gacy as babies then?

Because they were no where near as bad? Gods purpose is to provide a choice. Not remove it. You have to address the principle presented. God being just enacts justice.

You didn't say how you rationalise it being evil.

(June 14, 2013 at 5:48 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: How is it unjust? That was your future and you were judged on it. You're point of view as a time bound being doesn't alter the facts. Maybe you would cause more suffering than anything previously known and humanity would never recover. What justice would that be on your fellow humans?

So let me get this straight...

God knew before I was even born that the mind he gave me would not allow me to believe he exists, knowing ahead of time that I would break his rules, yet he allowed me to be born anyway?

He even knows just what it would take to convince me that he exists, yet he fails to provide me with it.

And this is what you call a just god?

Quote:Where God is just, we have to understand his actions to be just.

Are you saying that we just have to take it that God is just, because the God you believe in is just?

Seriously?

(June 14, 2013 at 6:08 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: So let me get this straight...

God knew before I was even born that the mind he gave me would not allow me to believe he exists, knowing ahead of time that I would break his rules, yet he allowed me to be born anyway?

He even knows just what it would take to convince me that he exists, yet he fails to provide me with it.

And this is what you call a just god?

You don't know yet that you won't believe, unless you're claiming future knowledge. But let me assume that you're talking about a hypothetical.

You deny the truth until you can no longer. He continually provides you with evidence to convince you, and at some point you'll realize that together with your full potential.

Justice would not equal you rewarded with good for fighting against good would it?

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(June 14, 2013 at 6:08 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Are you saying that we just have to take it that God is just, because the God you believe in is just?

As we deduce that God must be just (by constructing a coherent model) then God can be no other. What isn't just cannot be God. Is this what you meant?