(June 16, 2013 at 3:40 pm)Godschild Wrote: All these things came from God's judgement of those people, God found them guilty and pronounced His sentence against them. They were worshipers of false gods that could lead Israel away from God, in other words these people decided to worship things that were not real so they could reject the one true God.

(June 16, 2013 at 3:40 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(June 15, 2013 at 4:55 pm)orogenicman Wrote: 1 Samuel 15:3: "This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "

(Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."

Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

All these things came from God's judgement of those people, God found them guilty and pronounced His sentence against them. They were worshipers of false gods that could lead Israel away from God, in other words these people decided to worship things that were not real so they could reject the one true God.

(June 16, 2013 at 3:46 pm)orogenicman Wrote: I'm a worshipper of no gods. So is your god also going to rape and murder me? If you only knew how sociopathic your argument truly is. Not that you care, because, hey, that's how sociopaths are.

(June 15, 2013 at 5:07 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: So no mention of murder or rape.

With enemies like you who needs friends!

(June 16, 2013 at 4:13 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(June 16, 2013 at 3:46 pm)orogenicman Wrote: I'm a worshipper of no gods. So is your god also going to rape and murder me? If you only knew how sociopathic your argument truly is. Not that you care, because, hey, that's how sociopaths are.

Do you think anyone deserves to escape justice? Is this what you're pleading here?

Can a sociopath be just? What makes the sociopath a sociopath? Just that he is against mass opinion?

(June 16, 2013 at 3:27 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: ^ So...is God bipolar or does Samuel have horrible listening skills?

(June 16, 2013 at 6:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Yet children just get it.

C'mon dude answer the question

(June 16, 2013 at 10:23 pm)orogenicman Wrote:

(June 16, 2013 at 6:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Yet children just get it.

C'mon dude answer the question

What part of my reply did you not understand?

(June 14, 2013 at 4:49 pm)Zarith Wrote: Common arguments for the existence of God (such as the ontological argument, the teleological argument, first cause, cosmology, etc), only get you as far as an abstract notion of some sort of god -- the kind that philosophers talk about (if you accept the arguments, that is).

If you believe that the God of the Bible really exists and has the properties ascribed to him by this book, then other means are required to justify belief in this specific God. Typically this comes down to either scriptural authority, or divine revelation, or some combination of the two (for example, belief in the truth of the message of the biblical prophets is belief in both of these things). Am I omitting anything here? Note that I am including 'personal experience with God' under the umbrella of revelation, as God revealing himself to you.

But if you are willing to accept revelation / scripture as vehicles for determining truth from falsehood, then what is the point in attempting to construct a logical argument for the existence of God in the abstract? You already have what you consider proof of his existence, and a logical argument won't prove that your particular God exists. If you are trying to convince someone, they will still have to accept scriptural authority or divine revelation, will they not?

If belief in revelation / scripture is both necessary and sufficient, and logic alone is insufficient -- why bother?