(December 26, 2009 at 7:07 am)theVOID Wrote: Have you any other statements that can be made about 'spiritual health' that i could not just replace with the less ambiguous terms 'mental well-being' or 'emotional well-being'?

'Mental well being' covers the observed state. Why not just say 'unhappy' and replace all psychological assessments in one fell swoop? As I've said before, I equate full health in human beings as a state of rightness with God. It's a balance documented in the bible and achievable through faith like it describes. Psychiatry is impotent on the subject ignoring known wisdom as it does. Psychology has it's successes and that's great. I think it's realistic to say tho' that it leaves a lot of ground untouched.

(December 26, 2009 at 7:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(December 26, 2009 at 7:07 am)theVOID Wrote: Have you any other statements that can be made about 'spiritual health' that i could not just replace with the less ambiguous terms 'mental well-being' or 'emotional well-being'?

'Mental well being' covers the observed state.

No, that would be emotional well-being that presents it's self physically in noticeable moods, mental health would be harder to determine.

Quote: Why not just say 'unhappy' and replace all psychological assessments in one fell swoop?

Someone could be emotionally happy/unhappy and still insane and unhealthy mentally.

Quote:As I've said before, I equate full health in human beings as a state of rightness with God.

And what you consider 'rightness with god' and the mental and emotional state you feel from that connection can be felt equally by any single person from any belief or non-belief as mental and emotional well-being - There is no difference, you have just passed the credit on to god.

Quote: It's a balance documented in the bible and achievable through faith like it describes.

It's also achievable without any gods or faith, mine comes from my wonderment of the natural world from cosmology to quantum mechanics to evolution and beyond, that beauty of reality is for me absolutely unrivalled by superstitious myth.

Quote: Psychiatry is impotent on the subject ignoring known wisdom as it does. Psychology has it's successes and that's great. I think it's realistic to say tho' that it leaves a lot of ground untouched.

Psychiatry has nothing to do with it, it's only ideally required in circumstances when the individual has a mental or emotional condition that prevents them from living a normal life - Yeah, it's not perfect but it is in the vast majority of cases better than nothing, and it's still a developing health science so the results now don't speak of it's potential in any way. People have tried praying etc instead and it may work to an extent, but i would be willing to bet that it would be no more helpful than a good psychologist.

Quote:Looks like there is a few JACK ATHIEST on this forum in which I had enticipaited.

It's 'atheist' and 'anticipated'.

I for one would like to hear more about our scaly overlords.

Enlighten us Inspectorcritic!

(December 26, 2009 at 10:16 pm)theVOID Wrote:

(December 26, 2009 at 7:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(December 26, 2009 at 7:07 am)theVOID Wrote: Have you any other statements that can be made about 'spiritual health' that i could not just replace with the less ambiguous terms 'mental well-being' or 'emotional well-being'?

'Mental well being' covers the observed state.

No, that would be emotional well-being that presents it's self physically in noticeable moods, mental health would be harder to determine.

I can spot the mentally imbalanced - can't you?!

(December 26, 2009 at 10:16 pm)theVOID Wrote:

Quote:As I've said before, I equate full health in human beings as a state of rightness with God.

And what you consider 'rightness with god' and the mental and emotional state you feel from that connection can be felt equally by any single person from any belief or non-belief as mental and emotional well-being - There is no difference, you have just passed the credit on to god.

I don't think it can.. or at least I know of no method that produces the same effect/ To be fully healthy is obtainable by no other means that I know of.

(December 26, 2009 at 10:16 pm)theVOID Wrote:

Quote: It's a balance documented in the bible and achievable through faith like it describes.

It's also achievable without any gods or faith, mine comes from my wonderment of the natural world from cosmology to quantum mechanics to evolution and beyond, that beauty of reality is for me absolutely unrivalled by superstitious myth.

I have wonderment at the natural world too... but I also have the burning emotion from the consideration of God in addition to that. I can differentiate between healthy spirituality and superstition, and truth and myth.

(December 26, 2009 at 10:16 pm)theVOID Wrote:

Quote: Psychiatry is impotent on the subject ignoring known wisdom as it does. Psychology has it's successes and that's great. I think it's realistic to say tho' that it leaves a lot of ground untouched.

Psychiatry has nothing to do with it, it's only ideally required in circumstances when the individual has a mental or emotional condition that prevents them from living a normal life - Yeah, it's not perfect but it is in the vast majority of cases better than nothing, and it's still a developing health science so the results now don't speak of it's potential in any way. People have tried praying etc instead and it may work to an extent, but i would be willing to bet that it would be no more helpful than a good psychologist.

Praying is hardly relevant I think. What we're talking about is a logical perspective. Personally I wouldn't call say a very bleak outlook on life rational.

I think belief in an impossible, invisible friend is a sign of mental imbalance.

(December 27, 2009 at 8:00 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(December 26, 2009 at 10:16 pm)theVOID Wrote:

(December 26, 2009 at 7:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(December 26, 2009 at 7:07 am)theVOID Wrote: Have you any other statements that can be made about 'spiritual health' that i could not just replace with the less ambiguous terms 'mental well-being' or 'emotional well-being'?

'Mental well being' covers the observed state.

No, that would be emotional well-being that presents it's self physically in noticeable moods, mental health would be harder to determine.

I can spot the mentally imbalanced - can't you?!

Yes but it's not nearly as easy, for instance emotions are a primary form of communication between animals and thus we are tuned to detect them quite well, but mentally imbalanced people are harder to spot, because you can't read their thoughts. Tell me, what is a physical apparition of poor spiritual health?

Quote:

(December 26, 2009 at 10:16 pm)theVOID Wrote:

Quote:As I've said before, I equate full health in human beings as a state of rightness with God.

And what you consider 'rightness with god' and the mental and emotional state you feel from that connection can be felt equally by any single person from any belief or non-belief as mental and emotional well-being - There is no difference, you have just passed the credit on to god.

I don't think it can.. or at least I know of no method that produces the same effect/ To be fully healthy is obtainable by no other means that I know of.

Have you any proof that believers in god are more healthy than non-believers, or are you yet again asserting an assumption?

Quote:

(December 26, 2009 at 10:16 pm)theVOID Wrote:

Quote: It's a balance documented in the bible and achievable through faith like it describes.

It's also achievable without any gods or faith, mine comes from my wonderment of the natural world from cosmology to quantum mechanics to evolution and beyond, that beauty of reality is for me absolutely unrivalled by superstitious myth.

I have wonderment at the natural world too... but I also have the burning emotion from the consideration of God in addition to that. I can differentiate between healthy spirituality and superstition, and truth and myth.

I don't need god to feel an extreme emotional connection to non-life/non-memories, i can achieve that by looking at an output from a particle collider, or the pictures from the Hubble space telescope or just thinking about the history of the universe in general - The claim that your relationship with 'god' is greater than the connection myself or anyone else can feel to the universe it's self is an extremely arrogant and truthfully almost offensive remark.

You claim you can prove the truth of your claims now? That is a position you cannot possibly support and you know it - stick with faith, it's what your good at.

Quote:

(December 26, 2009 at 10:16 pm)theVOID Wrote:

Quote: Psychiatry is impotent on the subject ignoring known wisdom as it does. Psychology has it's successes and that's great. I think it's realistic to say tho' that it leaves a lot of ground untouched.

Psychiatry has nothing to do with it, it's only ideally required in circumstances when the individual has a mental or emotional condition that prevents them from living a normal life - Yeah, it's not perfect but it is in the vast majority of cases better than nothing, and it's still a developing health science so the results now don't speak of it's potential in any way. People have tried praying etc instead and it may work to an extent, but i would be willing to bet that it would be no more helpful than a good psychologist.

Praying is hardly relevant I think. What we're talking about is a logical perspective. Personally I wouldn't call say a very bleak outlook on life rational.

Bleak outlook on life? I'm fully satisfied with the life i have, i don't need to hope for another one or imagine a sky-daddy to comfort me in this one - that to me is a more bleak outlook.

(December 27, 2009 at 9:03 am)theVOID Wrote: Tell me, what is a physical apparition of poor spiritual health?

Low self esteem, pessimism, negativity, a living death.

(December 27, 2009 at 9:03 am)theVOID Wrote: Have you any proof that believers in god are more healthy than non-believers, or are you yet again asserting an assumption?

There is no magic line to cross. The inclusion of an aim makes it possible to attain health. And as for a measure.. I think that's asking too much.

(December 27, 2009 at 9:03 am)theVOID Wrote:

Quote:

(December 26, 2009 at 10:16 pm)theVOID Wrote:

Quote: It's a balance documented in the bible and achievable through faith like it describes.

It's also achievable without any gods or faith, mine comes from my wonderment of the natural world from cosmology to quantum mechanics to evolution and beyond, that beauty of reality is for me absolutely unrivalled by superstitious myth.

I have wonderment at the natural world too... but I also have the burning emotion from the consideration of God in addition to that. I can differentiate between healthy spirituality and superstition, and truth and myth.

I don't need god to feel an extreme emotional connection to non-life/non-memories, i can achieve that by looking at an output from a particle collider, or the pictures from the Hubble space telescope or just thinking about the history of the universe in general - The claim that your relationship with 'god' is greater than the connection myself or anyone else can feel to the universe it's self is an extremely arrogant and truthfully almost offensive remark.

You claim you can prove the truth of your claims now? That is a position you cannot possibly support and you know it - stick with faith, it's what your good at.

What I'm talking about is a subject in addition to those that you already consider, that in my experience, adds to my personal well being. My experience is corroborated by other Christians. I know of no other method of achieving this well being, and I cannot assume to compare my own experience with yours. What I can do is relate to you the distinction I understand.

(December 27, 2009 at 9:03 am)theVOID Wrote:

Quote:

(December 26, 2009 at 10:16 pm)theVOID Wrote:

Quote: Psychiatry is impotent on the subject ignoring known wisdom as it does. Psychology has it's successes and that's great. I think it's realistic to say tho' that it leaves a lot of ground untouched.

Psychiatry has nothing to do with it, it's only ideally required in circumstances when the individual has a mental or emotional condition that prevents them from living a normal life - Yeah, it's not perfect but it is in the vast majority of cases better than nothing, and it's still a developing health science so the results now don't speak of it's potential in any way. People have tried praying etc instead and it may work to an extent, but i would be willing to bet that it would be no more helpful than a good psychologist.

Praying is hardly relevant I think. What we're talking about is a logical perspective. Personally I wouldn't call say a very bleak outlook on life rational.

Bleak outlook on life? I'm fully satisfied with the life i have, i don't need to hope for another one or imagine a sky-daddy to comfort me in this one - that to me is a more bleak outlook.

I didn't say that you had a bleak outlook on life.. I said that a bleak outlook would be an indicator of irrationality.

You don't know yet you have the arrogance to make a definite statement.

(December 27, 2009 at 8:00 am)fr0d0 Wrote: I have wonderment at the natural world too... but I also have the burning emotion from the consideration of God in addition to that. I can differentiate between healthy spirituality and superstition, and truth and myth.

So you've got an aboard baloney detector. How does it work? Just shove a religion or myth in and out comes the answer like "baloney" or "absolute truth"? Have you any control over it or do you just rely on it and don't ask questions?

It's going crazy right now Rabbit