(July 25, 2013 at 9:11 am)Red Celt Wrote: This is all rather tangential to the rest of the conversation, but just a few quick points about what you wrote here. You are on very dodgy ground claiming the moon landing(s) as an American accomplishment. Worldwide, it was seen as a human accomplishment. If you're going to add a nationality to it, the American flag should have been accompanied by a swastika. It was German ingenuity that gave the US space program its foundations... born from their efforts to demoralise the UK by means of unmanned munitions delivery.

The best translation of everything you wrote was that the USA had the money to see those things accomplished. That was due to resources and manpower. If the New World had been the size of Belgium, with the land and population to match... none of that would have been achieved. And it is down to money. If you're ever in one of those creators of technological ingenuity, have a listen to the number of accents that you'll hear. The brains aren't all American. The money is, though.

You've been drinking the Patriotism Koolaid like every other good citizen.

Noooo, I'm merely stating out the ad hominem fallacy in saying Americans are automatically stupid even though this country has a fairly long list of producing and/or sponsoring successful ideas and innovations that have helped humanity as a whole. I'm not saying the US is alone in those regards, merely that stating "You are American ergo dumb" is a pitifully weak statement in the face of the fact that, if nothing else, we were certainly smart enough to see a good idea and to finance it when we saw it quite often.

Also do not ever say something like this:

Quote:You've been drinking the Patriotism Koolaid like every other good citizen.

to me ever again. I cannot begin to explain how insulting that really is to me or why, but you might as well have just pissed on my dead mother's grave, it's on THAT sort of level. I'll forgive you this one time because I don't believe that was your intended purpose, but just bear that in mind going forward.
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Attie...you're just an idiot. When did China "hunt in America," when the amount of time necessary to travel either by land OR boat to go ACROSS THE OCEAN, for the sole sake of hunting some deer or bear, would have meant that the meat would have been spoiled LONG, LONG before it ever got back to China? Please, provide me with some links to these articles, I have to see this shit to believe it.

Even if you manage that, the fact of the matter is you're clearly several levels of intelligence below just about everyone on this forum (as demonstrated by your childish ad hominems and mind-numbingly stupid statements ((seriously, polluting space? Did your mother smoke a lot of pot when she was pregnant with you, or did you just snort a lot of those lead-based paint fumes growing up?))), and I'm even including some of the most notably stupid members we've had around this forum [ask anyone here; we've had some wonderful examples of idiocy]. Discussing a topic with you is clearly going to be like trying to explain calculus to an underachieving fifth grader. Make a point and back it up with information or just admit you're a brain-dead retard. Doing anything other than the former will automatically lead to you defaulting to the latter.

(July 25, 2013 at 9:51 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote:

(July 25, 2013 at 9:11 am)Red Celt Wrote: This is all rather tangential to the rest of the conversation, but just a few quick points about what you wrote here. You are on very dodgy ground claiming the moon landing(s) as an American accomplishment. Worldwide, it was seen as a human accomplishment. If you're going to add a nationality to it, the American flag should have been accompanied by a swastika. It was German ingenuity that gave the US space program its foundations... born from their efforts to demoralise the UK by means of unmanned munitions delivery.

The best translation of everything you wrote was that the USA had the money to see those things accomplished. That was due to resources and manpower. If the New World had been the size of Belgium, with the land and population to match... none of that would have been achieved. And it is down to money. If you're ever in one of those creators of technological ingenuity, have a listen to the number of accents that you'll hear. The brains aren't all American. The money is, though.

You've been drinking the Patriotism Koolaid like every other good citizen.

Noooo, I'm merely stating out the ad hominem fallacy in saying Americans are automatically stupid even though this country has a fairly long list of producing and/or sponsoring successful ideas and innovations that have helped humanity as a whole. I'm not saying the US is alone in those regards, merely that stating "You are American ergo dumb" is a pitifully weak statement in the face of the fact that, if nothing else, we were certainly smart enough to see a good idea and to finance it when we saw it quite often.

Also do not ever say something like this:

Quote:You've been drinking the Patriotism Koolaid like every other good citizen.

to me ever again. I cannot begin to explain how insulting that really is to me or why, but you might as well have just pissed on my dead mother's grave, it's on THAT sort of level. I'll forgive you this one time because I don't believe that was your intended purpose, but just bear that in mind going forward.
----
Attie...you're just an idiot. When did China "hunt in America," when the amount of time necessary to travel either by land OR boat to go ACROSS THE OCEAN, for the sole sake of hunting some deer or bear, would have meant that the meat would have been spoiled LONG, LONG before it ever got back to China? Please, provide me with some links to these articles, I have to see this shit to believe it.

Even if you manage that, the fact of the matter is you're clearly several levels of intelligence below just about everyone on this forum (as demonstrated by your childish ad hominems and mind-numbingly stupid statements ((seriously, polluting space? Did your mother smoke a lot of pot when she was pregnant with you, or did you just snort a lot of those lead-based paint fumes growing up?))), and I'm even including some of the most notably stupid members we've had around this forum [ask anyone here; we've had some wonderful examples of idiocy]. Discussing a topic with you is clearly going to be like trying to explain calculus to an underachieving fifth grader. Make a point and back it up with information or just admit you're a brain-dead retard. Doing anything other than the former will automatically lead to you defaulting to the latter.

See mate, the problem is you miss the point I and many others have been making. Not on this forum though. Now you want me to help you out of your dilemma. I'm not going to do that!

As for our Chinese history, you go do the digging for yourself. Fact is that America was inhabited long before Europeans put foot there. China had the largest seafaring ships long before Columbus could dream about one and we colonized the Americas way before western history started recording facts.

It's evident you are still very young, full of zeal but not that educated.

The Buddha taught about enlightenment which contains non-conceptual awareness. Did you study this at varsity too?

(July 25, 2013 at 9:11 am)Red Celt Wrote: You saying "murder is wrong" is subjective, not objective. The concept of objective morality is that it exists in separation from the subjective experience. It would be universal (literally) and held to be true in every civilisation on every planet in the universe. As it doesn't rely on those civilisations, it would have predated them. It would exist even if there were no civilisations. Going back to my original question (that you mocked) it would have to have come into existence at some point after the big bang.

Except it didn't, because it doesn't exist. "Good" and "bad" are evolved concepts and utterly subjective.

And this would be a perfect example of a common misconception regarding objective morality. As a matter of fact, this is how theist's view objective morality. However, objective morality is not the same thing as moral realism.

Morality is a completely conceptual field. In that sense, it can never be truly mind-independent. Concepts cannot exist without there being a mind to conceive of them (unless you subscribe to some form of idealism) and this is true not just for morality but to fields like science, math and logic as well. So if that's your standard of objectivity, then you might as well regard all of the above as subjective.

On the other hand, the reason we regard the other fields as objective is because their content is based on the object of consideration (what is being studied) rather than the subject of consideration (the person doing the study). As for being based on experience - the field of science is based on experience as well. The trick to making it objective is to eliminate the subjective aspects of that experience. The same way that math, logic and science do not predate civilization, we shouldn't expect morality to do the same.

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(July 25, 2013 at 10:24 am)Attie Wrote: The Buddha taught about enlightenment which contains non-conceptual awareness. Did you study this at varsity too?

You do know that Buddha never actually came to China, right?

(July 25, 2013 at 9:51 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Noooo, I'm merely stating out the ad hominem fallacy in saying Americans are automatically stupid even though this country has a fairly long list of producing and/or sponsoring successful ideas and innovations that have helped humanity as a whole. I'm not saying the US is alone in those regards, merely that stating "You are American ergo dumb" is a pitifully weak statement in the face of the fact that, if nothing else, we were certainly smart enough to see a good idea and to finance it when we saw it quite often.

Agreed, it was a silly thing to say. I was just pointing out that your counterargument swung a bit too wide of the mark.

(July 25, 2013 at 9:51 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Also do not ever say something like this:

Quote:You've been drinking the Patriotism Koolaid like every other good citizen.

to me ever again. I cannot begin to explain how insulting that really is to me or why, but you might as well have just pissed on my dead mother's grave, it's on THAT sort of level. I'll forgive you this one time because I don't believe that was your intended purpose, but just bear that in mind going forward.

Colour me intrigued. In what possible way was that offensive?

(July 25, 2013 at 10:24 am)Attie Wrote: As for our Chinese history, you go do the digging for yourself. Fact is that America was inhabited long before Europeans put foot there. China had the largest seafaring ships long before Columbus could dream about one and we colonized the Americas way before western history started recording facts.

China is over 14,000 years old?

Quote:In these earlier studies, the researchers concluded that the most straightforward explanation for the distribution of the 9-repeat allele was that all modern Native Americans, Greenlanders and western Beringians descend from a common founding population. Furthermore, the fact that the allele was absent in other Asian populations most likely meant that America’s ancestral founders had been isolated from the rest of Asia for thousands of years before they moved into the New World: that is, for a period of time that was long enough to allow the allele to originate in, and spread throughout, the isolated population.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...223836.htm

Sorry, Mate. You can't realistically claim first dibs of the Americas for your people no matter how you try.

You're about as closely related to the Native Americans as I am related to Yassir Arafat.

Which ain't close at all.

(July 25, 2013 at 11:06 am)Rahul Wrote:

(July 25, 2013 at 10:24 am)Attie Wrote: As for our Chinese history, you go do the digging for yourself. Fact is that America was inhabited long before Europeans put foot there. China had the largest seafaring ships long before Columbus could dream about one and we colonized the Americas way before western history started recording facts.

China is over 14,000 years old?

Quote:In these earlier studies, the researchers concluded that the most straightforward explanation for the distribution of the 9-repeat allele was that all modern Native Americans, Greenlanders and western Beringians descend from a common founding population. Furthermore, the fact that the allele was absent in other Asian populations most likely meant that America’s ancestral founders had been isolated from the rest of Asia for thousands of years before they moved into the New World: that is, for a period of time that was long enough to allow the allele to originate in, and spread throughout, the isolated population.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...223836.htm

Sorry, Mate. You can't realistically claim first dibs of the Americas for your people no matter how you try.

You're about as closely related to the Native Americans as I am related to Yassir Arafat.

Which ain't close at all.

Where do you get the fucking idea that I claim to be related! On the other hand I would not trust your sources.

What do you know about us mate?

Guess who's the small ship in the same year as Columbus.

(July 25, 2013 at 11:42 am)Attie Wrote: Where do you get the fucking idea that I claim to be related!

From right here. I even bolded some for you. You seem to need the help.

(July 25, 2013 at 10:24 am)Attie Wrote: As for our Chinese history, you go do the digging for yourself. Fact is that America was inhabited long before Europeans put foot there. China had the largest seafaring ships long before Columbus could dream about one and we colonized the Americas way before western history started recording facts.

(July 25, 2013 at 11:42 am)Attie Wrote: On the other hand I would not trust your sources.

David G. Smith, a professor of anthropology at UC Davis; Mattias Jacobsson, University of Michigan and Uppsala University in Sweden; Michael H. Crawford, University of Kansas; Theodore Schurr, University of Pennsylvania; Simina Boca, Johns Hopkins University; Donald F. Conrad and Jonathan Pritchard, University of Chicago; Raul Tito and Ripan Malhi, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign; Ludmilla Osipova, Russian Academy of Sciences, Novosibirsk; Larissa Tarskaia, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow; Sergey Zhadanov, University of Pennsylvania and Russian Academy of Sciences, Novosibirsk; and Jeffrey D. Wall, UC San Francisco.

Yeah, those guys are full of shit I'm sure. Not near the expert you are.

(July 25, 2013 at 11:42 am)Attie Wrote: What do you know about us mate?

Why do you keep using the word "mate"? Did you learn English by watching Steve Irwin's show the Crocodile Hunter?

I don't know much about ya. Your people keep rewriting everything about the subject.

(July 25, 2013 at 11:53 am)Rahul Wrote:

(July 25, 2013 at 11:42 am)Attie Wrote: Where do you get the fucking idea that I claim to be related!

From right here. I even bolded some for you. You seem to need the help.

(July 25, 2013 at 10:24 am)Attie Wrote: As for our Chinese history, you go do the digging for yourself. Fact is that America was inhabited long before Europeans put foot there. China had the largest seafaring ships long before Columbus could dream about one and we colonized the Americas way before western history started recording facts.

(July 25, 2013 at 11:42 am)Attie Wrote: On the other hand I would not trust your sources.

David G. Smith, a professor of anthropology at UC Davis; Mattias Jacobsson, University of Michigan and Uppsala University in Sweden; Michael H. Crawford, University of Kansas; Theodore Schurr, University of Pennsylvania; Simina Boca, Johns Hopkins University; Donald F. Conrad and Jonathan Pritchard, University of Chicago; Raul Tito and Ripan Malhi, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign; Ludmilla Osipova, Russian Academy of Sciences, Novosibirsk; Larissa Tarskaia, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow; Sergey Zhadanov, University of Pennsylvania and Russian Academy of Sciences, Novosibirsk; and Jeffrey D. Wall, UC San Francisco.

Yeah, those guys are full of shit I'm sure. Not near the expert you are.

(July 25, 2013 at 11:42 am)Attie Wrote: What do you know about us mate?

Why do you keep using the word "mate"? Did you learn English by watching Steve Irwin's show the Crocodile Hunter?

I don't know much about ya. Your people keep rewriting everything about the subject.

Well I say mate because I can say fuck you mate! I like saying mate if you don't like it it's your problem mate.

Fuck your western bullshit as well! America is only the size of four small counties in China. Because we taught you how to make paper, ink, print, gunpowder, build ships, paper money, silk, play golf and were writing long before you started imagining it I suppose our history books all talk rubbish and oh, fuck your professors as well!

And yes we colonized the americas long before you could but that does not mean we are related to the natives during your time, well some yes. And then we dropped it like a hot potato. Go figure and if you look carefully you will find the evidence. Just try!

(July 25, 2013 at 12:12 pm)Attie Wrote: Well I say mate because I can say fuck you mate! I like saying mate if you don't like it it's your problem mate.

Well Cheerio and Tip Tip to you. That's cool. It's just funny hearing a Chinese person saying "Mate" every other sentence.

(July 25, 2013 at 12:12 pm)Attie Wrote: Fuck your western bullshit as well! America is only the size of four small counties in China.

Here's a listing of the four largest countries in the world by area, in both square kilometers and square miles.

1.Russia: 17,075,200 km2 (6,591,027 mi2)
2.Canada: 9,984,670 km2 (3,854,082 mi2)
3.United States: 9,631,418 km2 (3,717,727 mi2)
4.China: 9,596,960 km2 (3,704,426 mi2)

Boom! This is too easy. You're fun.

(July 25, 2013 at 12:12 pm)Attie Wrote: Because we taught you how to make paper, ink, print, gunpowder, build ships, paper money, silk, play golf and were writing long before you started imagining it I suppose our history books all talk rubbish and oh, fuck your professors as well!

Thanks!

How are you enjoying Electricity, the Combustion Engine, Refrigeration, Air Conditioning, Airplanes, Television, Phones, and that Computer you're on?

(July 25, 2013 at 12:19 pm)Rahul Wrote:

(July 25, 2013 at 12:12 pm)Attie Wrote: Well I say mate because I can say fuck you mate! I like saying mate if you don't like it it's your problem mate.

Well Cheerio and Tip Tip to you. That's cool. It's just funny hearing a Chinese person saying "Mate" every other sentence.

(July 25, 2013 at 12:12 pm)Attie Wrote: Fuck your western bullshit as well! America is only the size of four small counties in China.

Here's a listing of the twenty largest countries in the world by area, in both square kilometers and square miles.

1.Russia: 17,075,200 km2 (6,591,027 mi2)
2.Canada: 9,984,670 km2 (3,854,082 mi2)
3.United States: 9,631,418 km2 (3,717,727 mi2)
4.China: 9,596,960 km2 (3,704,426 mi2)

Boom! This is too easy. You're fun.

(July 25, 2013 at 12:12 pm)Attie Wrote: Because we taught you how to make paper, ink, print, gunpowder, build ships, paper money, silk, play golf and were writing long before you started imagining it I suppose our history books all talk rubbish and oh, fuck your professors as well!

Thanks!

How are you enjoying Electricity, the Combustion Engine, Refrigeration, Air Conditioning, Airplanes, Television, Phones, and that Computer you're on?

I'm talking people arsehole not the size of your desert.

Oh, and we enjoy electronic gadgets we build them here by the tons to be exported to the US.

Hey! Your land sizes are wrong buddy! China is the third biggest landmass in the world.