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Try God...
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 (July 24, 2013 at 5:23 pm)ronedee Wrote:(July 24, 2013 at 11:18 am)Esquilax Wrote: It's also a strawman. Don't try bullshitting us, we've eaten these arguments a long time ago. Find me a single atheist that has ever said "life came from nothing!" or admit that you're just lying. LOL, all you were asked to do was find a single atheist claiming what you said we claim. One! You're hilariously evasive. 
 (July 24, 2013 at 5:40 pm)ronedee Wrote: IF there is NO GOD... Why are YOU here? I'm sorry, but when a theist starts trotting out this tripe, it's time to simply dismiss anything they say afterwords. I wouldn't give two shits about debating whether god exists or not if theists didn't feel the right dictate how I live my life and how my country should be run based on their interpretation of their deity's will. There wouldn't be a need to argue if there were no self-righteous zealots that think they have a holy mandate to force everyone else to conform to their standards. So, what is the reason we debate this? Because too many theists can't seem to understand that they don't have the right to cram their shit down everyone else's throat. If you don't want to hear atheists bitch about religion, talk to your brothers in christ.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
(July 24, 2013 at 5:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: Let me ask you again.... How did everything come into existence? Unless you can give me a concise answer then you have no grounds for saying that God doesn't exist! Simple. Requirements you pull out of your ass can be as simple as you want them to be. But I'll play on your field. Presumably the converse is true: unless you can give me a concise answer on how everything came into existence, you have no grounds for saying God exists. Simple! Not really, of course, there's absolutely no basis to presume the answer to such a question would be concise, but it's your demand, meet it yourself if you can. Just remember that a 'who' or 'what' answer is a non-sequitur in response to a 'how' question. If I ask you how an automobile is made, telling me that they're made by factory workers or with tools doesn't actually answer the question, any more than 'quantum physics' would be an answer that would satisfy you regarding how the universe came into existence. When you ask a magician how he performed a trick and he answers 'with magic!', he's not answering your question, he's evading it.  (July 25, 2013 at 10:01 am)BadWriterSparty Wrote:(July 25, 2013 at 12:41 am)Godschild Wrote: BWS says you need to prove your positive statement. I've been here for over three years and not one shred of proof has been given to show God does not exist.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
 RE: Try God...
July 25, 2013 at 10:20 pm
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2013 at 10:22 pm by Silver.)
(July 25, 2013 at 10:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: I've been here for over three years and not one shred of proof has been given to show God does not exist. And during those three years, I am certain the burden of proof has been explained to you ad nauseum. It is your job to prove the extraordinary claim for which there is no apparent evidence, and in my thirty-three years of life I have yet to see any reason given other than you must have faith. Faith is not proof, and if one is going to base a belief on mere faith, one might as well believe in unicorns while one is at it.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter  (July 25, 2013 at 4:33 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Just remember that a 'who' or 'what' answer is a non-sequitur in response to a 'how' question. If I ask you how an automobile is made, telling me that they're made by factory workers or with tools doesn't actually answer the question, any more than 'quantum physics' would be an answer that would satisfy you regarding how the universe came into existence. When you ask a magician how he performed a trick and he answers 'with magic!', he's not answering your question, he's evading it. Yes! Thank you! I toyed with this question on the other page, but it's so nice to see it expressed cogently like this. It's so weird how the theist demands painstaking, step by step proof for scientific principles, but when it comes to their own answer to the same questions, they just shrug and say god did it. Completely ignoring that, even if that were true, it doesn't answer the question at all, and the scientific minded individual wouldn't be satisfied with it. The how is left unanswered, and yet the theist still claims victory... 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects! (July 25, 2013 at 10:20 pm)Maelstrom Wrote:(July 25, 2013 at 10:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: I've been here for over three years and not one shred of proof has been given to show God does not exist. You're the one making the positive statement that God does not exist, thus the burden of proof lies with you to give proof to that statement, I've never claimed I can prove God exists, I have given reasons why I know He exists. You need to get off your ad nauseum and get to work.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(July 26, 2013 at 12:03 am)Godschild Wrote: thus the burden of proof lies with you. Very well. Considering the veritable lack of evidence in support of a deity means the probability of stated deity existing is rather improbable, especially in terms of thousands of years of human evolution whereby no proof has ever been gleaned.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter (July 26, 2013 at 12:03 am)Godschild Wrote: You're the one making the positive statement that God does not exist, thus the burden of proof lies with you to give proof to that statement, I've never claimed I can prove God exists, I have given reasons why I know He exists. You need to get off your ad nauseum and get to work. Ah ah ah, let's slow down a little. Maelstrom hasn't made the claim that god doesn't exist, just that there's a lack of evidence. Happily, you just said you know god exists, and that is a positive existential claim, and therefore requires proof. Knowledge is demonstrated, or else it's not knowledge at all. How do you intend to do this?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects! 
Bad Wolf
Compulsive procrastinator  Religious Views: Agnostic atheist, anti-theist, whovian, misanthrope? (July 26, 2013 at 12:03 am)Godschild Wrote: You're the one making the positive statement that God does not exist, thus the burden of proof lies with you to give proof to that statement, I've never claimed I can prove God exists, I have given reasons why I know He exists. You need to get off your ad nauseum and get to work. I explained this to rondee just a page back. Did you not read that page? Well, i will say it again: Atheists do not claim a god does not exist, we claim we do not believe a god exists. Do you see the difference? We are simply reacting to theist claims. Theists claim that a god does exist. You claim that you know he exists. The burden of proof is on you to prove your extraordinary claim, it is not up to us to try and disprove you. I would add a stupid example about unicorns or goblins or something but i get the feeling that what i have just said has been repeated to you many times and that you ignore it completely every time
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House “Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom "If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech |
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