Quote:Who's talking about a person? I'm talking about a human. Both you and the zygote are classified as human.

I don't think you know what you are talking about, Frods.

(July 29, 2013 at 2:59 pm)Slave Wrote: Aborting a fetus is the termination of a human life.

Your point?

(July 29, 2013 at 2:36 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: A zygote + is a human life
A person is a human life at a later stage of development

We don't have rights because we are human.

We have rights because we exist as people.

Personhood, not species classification, defines rights.

Is this point clear yet?

Even if you want to consider a fetus human life, it's all semantics to me because that will not change my stance on the subject. It should still be the mother's choice.

(July 29, 2013 at 2:01 pm)Slave Wrote: @Jesus: How does it contradict exactly? The first sentence says I am not interested in arguments of personhood because it is a philosophical question. The second sentence you bolded says the same thing, worded differently. Can you explain how they are different?

You say scientific fact has no place in this arguments, and rather, it's a philosophical debate. Yet you say you want nothing personal from anyone, only facts?

If you apply the golden rule to the issue of abortion, you see how absurd it is to claim abortion is murder. This is a quick little argument that occurred to me at this moment. I'll have to flesh it out later.

In order for a violation of the golden rule to take place, both parties in question must be capable of feeling that they have been wronged.

A fetus cannot feel being wronged.

Therefore, killing a fetus does not violate the golden rule.

(July 29, 2013 at 4:01 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: If you apply the golden rule to the issue of abortion, you see how absurd it is to claim abortion is murder.

To be fair, I haven't seen anyone claim abortion is murder.

(July 29, 2013 at 4:05 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote:

(July 29, 2013 at 4:01 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: If you apply the golden rule to the issue of abortion, you see how absurd it is to claim abortion is murder.

To be fair, I haven't seen anyone claim abortion is murder.

You must not live in the south.

(July 29, 2013 at 3:53 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(July 29, 2013 at 2:59 pm)Slave Wrote: Aborting a fetus is the termination of a human life.

Your point?

What a poignant question. All this time I was just debating and discussing the issue of human rights, embryology and ethics because I like to have a dissenting opinion. . .

My point is I took issue with people in this thread for their opinions on abortion and argued my stance on the matter.

Jesus Wrote:You say scientific fact has no place in this arguments, and rather, it's a philosophical debate. Yet you say you want nothing personal from anyone, only facts?

No, I said that I didn't care to discuss the philosophic implications of sentience as I already had done (while no one has bothered to address the points I made, no matter). I would like some facts from people who have been debating me, absolutely. Since all I have received thus far are opinions and conjecture and not facts.

@teaearlgreyhot: The golden rule as the standard of which to hold abortion to? The golden rule has been argued on this forum already and has been proven to be categorically false. But sure, let's drag in another irrelevant point into the discussion, might as well.

(July 29, 2013 at 4:06 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote:

(July 29, 2013 at 4:05 pm)CleanShavenJesus Wrote: To be fair, I haven't seen anyone claim abortion is murder.

You must not live in the south.

In this topic, I mean.

(July 29, 2013 at 4:07 pm)Slave Wrote: @teaearlgreyhot: The golden rule as the standard of which to hold abortion to? The golden rule has been argued on this forum already and has been proven to be categorically false. But sure, let's drag in another irrelevant point into the discussion, might as well.

The golden rule is my assumption. Assuming the golden rule, then abortion isn't murder. Many atheists here assume golden rule so I thought it would provide an interesting perspective to those of us who hold it. I don't believe in objective morality. I only hold to the golden rule because every violation of it I can imagine disgusts me.

I must know however, why do you personally object to murdering an adult human? I.e. by what criteria do you conclude that murder is wrong?