(August 7, 2013 at 11:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: Maybe you should look at it like the scriptures actually teaches. A person's eternal destination is hell, one does not have to choose it, one needs only to go through life and never consider God. Yet God says I have a free gift that will save you from an eternal life you can not escape from without the gift.

First things first. I am a deconverted christian. I know the bible better than most theists (likely including you). You are correct that the mythical christ teaches that one's eternal destination is (hell). How else would a fake deity (man's fearful control mongering) get a person to subscribe, but to condemn them from birth? Of course I don't have to choose hell; your (god) has chosen 'hell' for me from my innocent birth; indeed from conception, to be quite ironic. So, all of the fetuses are also condemned. That's a HELL of a god you worth(ship). Stop the fear mongering. Just because you are gullible, and bought the protection your mob (god) forces you to buy, doesn’t mean that it applies to me (or anyone else who can think properly).

The original whipping boy. He sells love by the lash.

(August 8, 2013 at 1:51 am)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(August 7, 2013 at 11:21 pm)Godschild Wrote:

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Maybe you should look at it like the scriptures actually teaches. A person's eternal destination is hell, one does not have to choose it, one needs only to go through life and never consider God. Yet God says I have a free gift that will save you from an eternal life you can not escape from without the gift.

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First things first. I am a deconverted christian. I know the bible better than most theists (likely including you). You are correct that the mythical christ teaches that one's eternal destination is (hell). How else would a fake deity (man's fearful control mongering) get a person to subscribe, but to condemn them from birth? Of course I don't have to choose hell; your (god) has chosen 'hell' for me from my innocent birth; indeed from conception, to be quite ironic. So, all of the fetuses are also condemned. That's a HELL of a god you worth(ship). Stop the fear mongering. Just because you are gullible, and bought the protection your mob (god) forces you to buy, doesn’t mean that it applies to me (or anyone else who can think properly).

Where in scripture can I find that infants and fetuses go to hell when they die?

(August 8, 2013 at 2:53 am)Godschild Wrote: Where in scripture can I find that infants and fetuses go to hell when they die?

It is right between Jesus' mention of abortion and homosexuality.

(August 8, 2013 at 2:53 am)Godschild Wrote: Where in scripture can I find that infants and fetuses go to hell when they die?

Where in scripture does it say that I can't buy beer on Sunday?

(August 8, 2013 at 2:53 am)Godschild Wrote: Where in scripture can I find that infants and fetuses go to hell when they die?

Wow, way to misinterpret what was said. You claimed hell was a choice, but in your theology we are all condemned to hell from birth by means of original sin, with the only escape route being to accept Jesus later, yes? This is a choice made for us, and not a choice we have made. That's the point.

See, it links in with what I said earlier, about you not knowing what a choice really is.

(August 7, 2013 at 6:09 pm)Locke Wrote: I can answer that from a Biblical perspective, but in a forum post, that would be circular reasoning, without listing full-blown evidence for the Bible's validity outside of itself.

For this one you can use scripture. In order to convince me you will have to convince me that:
1) God exists
2) The Christian god is the correct one
3) If the Christian god exists he/she is not an evil bastard with some serious anger issues.

If you manage to comvince me of 3 I'll be more open to 1 and 2.

There is a post somewhere on these forums "Is God Evil". Go and tip your toes in .

Quote:EDIT: I actually sincerely don't understand why torture would be considered bad without God in the picture, so I ask again. Why is torture bad?

This one has been answered but I would like to add my answer as well.

Humans need each other to survive. Those people who go around proclaiming: "I don't need nothing from nobody" are stupid. And I'm not just saying that because they use double negatives.

Something as small as me driving to work this morning required thousands of people. My car, the fuel in my car, the road, the traffic lights the truck that drove the petrol to the petrol station, etc. None of these things would be there if it were not for loads of other people.

Because of this I can say with a fair amount of confidence that anything that is bad for society is bad for the individual (me). Since society is made up of individuals, anything that is bad for an individual will have a negative impact on society. That includes individuals who do do not contribute to society - they have friends and family who do.

This is one of the places where the Christian argument of "if there is no God, why don't we all just run around doing what we want" falls flat.

(August 8, 2013 at 2:53 am)Godschild Wrote: Where in scripture can I find that infants and fetuses go to hell when they die?

NOW you're catching on... Its more in what's NOT quoted within your (holy) text, than the (rules) that it dictates.

Where in (your) bible does it say that condemnation occurs at physical birth rather than within the womb at conception? Does passing through the vagina make one unholy? If so, I'm unholy on several occasions throughout the week (in context of natural sex), since I pass in and out of my (heterosexual) wife's vag many times per week. Damn it! now I have to wake the wife up; I'm thinking about be(coming) VERY un(hole)y now!

See what you've done? Hole(y), un-hole(y). To me, it's the same as....

IN, OUT, IN, OUT, IN, OUT!!!

In other words... FUCk IT!

(August 8, 2013 at 4:01 am)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(August 8, 2013 at 2:53 am)Godschild Wrote: Where in scripture can I find that infants and fetuses go to hell when they die?

NOW you're catching on... Its more in what's NOT quoted within your (holy) text, than the (rules) that it dictates.

Where in (your) bible does it say that condemnation occurs at physical birth rather than within the womb at conception? Does passing through the vagina make one unholy? If so, I'm unholy on several occasions throughout the week (in context of natural sex), since I pass in and out of my (heterosexual) wife's vag many times per week. Damn it! now I have to wake the wife up; I'm thinking about be(coming) VERY un(hole)y now!

See what you've done? Hole(y), un-hole(y). To me, it's the same as....

IN, OUT, IN, OUT, IN, OUT!!!

In other words... FUCk IT!

Yes, you're right now I see you know nothing of what scriptures teach.

(August 8, 2013 at 7:16 am)Godschild Wrote: Yes, you're right now I see you know nothing of what scriptures teach.

So demonstrate to us why what you feel about the scriptures conforms to physical reality.

(August 7, 2013 at 6:32 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: Trying to get a theist to open their eyes and see beyond the myth is like going full throttle in a mud race. It gets you nowhere and only makes a bigger mess.

What are my eyes supposed to be opened to? You portrayed atheists by a homeless man who is biting his nose to spite his face. I largely agree with you.