The problem is that the forms of ID they accept are harder for minorities to acquire. Through voter suppression laws they try to make it impossible for minorities to vote. I don't know why they think they can get away with that shit without it hurting them in the long run politically, but there you go. It's kind of like how they're overregulating abortion to the point that abortion clinics cannot operate.

(August 14, 2013 at 6:04 pm)futilethewinds Wrote: The problem is that the forms of ID they accept are harder for minorities to acquire. Through voter suppression laws they try to make it impossible for minorities to vote. I don't know why they think they can get away with that shit without it hurting them in the long run politically, but there you go. It's kind of like how they're overregulating abortion to the point that abortion clinics cannot operate.

How hard is it in the US to get ID????

I just have to go to the magistrate, pay 50 euros and 2 weeks later I can pick up my passport. I almoust get ID`s everywhere, workplace, busdriving, public service, healthcare, on and on and on.
It is somethink like a cliche but german institutions force ID`s on you for almoust everything you engage in.

The US has a hallowed tradition of pretending everything on god's flat earth that's worth seeing by a christian must lie within the borders of US of A, most likely on this side of disneyland, therefore it is not all that common for poorer American families to actually have passports for other reasons.

The cost of US passport is $135, and it generally takes longer than 2 weeks from application to delivery. $135 is not an insubstantial sum for a family living at or below the poverty level. Furthermore, if you never had a passport and are applying for the first time, you must do so in person on a weekday at a designated passport office or post office, thus requiring you to take some time off from you low hourly wage job.

The central point is many surveys have shown that incidence of voter identity fraud in the US is generally very low. There isn't a significant problem of people ineligible to vote using fradulent identities to vote. Therefore the voter ID law addresses no problems.

On the other hand, it can be shown that voter ID law would in effect reduce participation by some people who are eligible to vote. Furthermore, the likely effected are overwhelmingly of the segment of the population who tend not to vote for those who would prepetrate this law.

So, voter ID laws address no problem, introduces problems, and the problems it introduces so happen to creat a electroal advantage for those who would introdice voter ID laws.

(August 14, 2013 at 6:21 pm)Chuck Wrote: The US has a hallowed tradition of pretending everything on god's flat earth that's worth seeing by a christian must lie within the borders of US of A, most likely on this side of disneyland, therefore it is not all that common for poorer American families to actually have passports for other reasons.

The cost of US passport is $135, and it generally takes longer than 2 weeks from application to delivery. $135 is not an insubstantial sum for a family living at or below the poverty level. Furthermore, if you never had a passport and are applying for the first time, you must do so in person on a weekday at a designated passport office or post office, thus requiring you to take some time off from you low hourly wage job.

Are there not other isntitutions that give ID`s? Is a driving license not an ID in the US?

I live in a society in which you need an ID for almoust everything and where ID`s are also provided by institutions.

(August 14, 2013 at 6:21 pm)Chuck Wrote: The US has a hallowed tradition of pretending everything on god's flat earth that's worth seeing by a christian must lie within the borders of US of A, most likely on this side of disneyland, therefore it is not all that common for poorer American families to actually have passports for other reasons.

The cost of US passport is $135, and it generally takes longer than 2 weeks from application to delivery. $135 is not an insubstantial sum for a family living at or below the poverty level. Furthermore, if you never had a passport and are applying for the first time, you must do so in person on a weekday at a designated passport office or post office, thus requiring you to take some time off from you low hourly wage job.

State issued ID cards (in lieu of a driver's license) are usually not so expensive, however it is still an expense that someone who's having trouble making ends meet will have difficulty affording.

ETA - the U.S. has a history of using poll taxes to suppress the minority / poor vote. While poll taxes have been ruled unconstitutional (and rightly so), requirements to obtain ID at the voter's expense are little different from a poll tax.

Requiring ID is not particularly onerous per se, but requiring ID that isn't provided free or that requires someone take time off work to obtain is. If such bills provided for a free and convenient means for low-income people to get ID, I would not necessarily oppose such a bill if voter fraud is of concern.

That's not the type of bill that proponents are pushing, however.

(August 14, 2013 at 3:30 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:but I do not believe that any Southern state or better put: any governor and goverment of a Southern state, will risk the bad press resulting out of fixing a voting commission and voting requirements in such a way that people are denied the right to vote on the basis of color.

Think again.

Quote:On Monday, North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory ® signed into law a massive voter suppression bill compiling numerous different provisions used to restrict voting in other states. Among other things, the bill includes a strict voter ID law, which will reduce turnout among minority, low-income and student voters. It will cut a full week of early voting, which is likely to depress turnout among low-income and African American voters. And it will prohibit certain kinds of voter registration drives, which tend to register low-income and minority voters.

Students, low-income voters and racial minorities, of course, tend to vote for Democrats. McCrory, and the lawmakers behind this bill, are Republicans.

To be honest I am more in a state of disbelief and shock.
I am aware of the problems in the South and it`s history and I grew up in a society which made learning from historic mistakes part of it`s culture both in the institutions and in society.

I am aware that this culture of learning has not been implemented as much as here in in Germany and that it not reached the population of the concerned states in the US, but I had at least expected the institutions to have undergone a process of learning instead of reinterducing a sceem which would recreate a past mistake.

(August 14, 2013 at 6:37 pm)The Germans are coming Wrote: I had at least expected the institutions to have undergone a process of learning instead of reinterducing a sceem which would recreate a past mistake.

You're naively assuming that they want to learn from past mistakes, or even see them as mistakes. Available evidence suggests that this is not the case.

(August 14, 2013 at 6:40 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: You're naively assuming that they want to learn from past mistakes, or even see them as mistakes. Available evidence suggests that this is not the case.

Why am I naiv? I guess there is simply a cultural difference here. I live in a country in which the dreamish concept of a "glorious past" is considered to be a scam used by the most vial and thugish criminals in politics.

Learning from the past is part of our culture, especialy since our past is almoust completly filled with very horrific events.

So I would have guessed that in the southern states of the US, something as racialy based discrimination, which is today frauned uppon by the entire world, is seen as a very dark and horrific chapter of the past. At least in the state institutions because I am aware that the population sees things differently.

(August 14, 2013 at 6:44 pm)The Germans are coming Wrote: Why am I naiv? I guess there is simply a cultural difference here. I live in a country in which the dreamish concept of a "glorious past" is considered to be a scam used by the most vial and thugish criminals in politics.

You forget the US has not yet had its own towns and cities come crumbling down around its ears as a result of trying to build a thousand year version of its dreamish concept of glorious past.

However, a concept of dreamish past suitable for bringing this about, consisting of wearing tricorn hats with metaphorical tea bags stabled to each corner - does seem to have gained in popularity recently.

(August 14, 2013 at 6:51 pm)Chuck Wrote: You forget the US has not yet been utterly crushed in a war it started in order to build a thousand year version of its dreamish concept of glorious past.

Which probably explains why all the southerners you confront with their history and it`s impact on today keep on whining and bitching as if nothing was ever wrong in the first place.

Yeah, I stand corrected. What the South needs is a utter and complete destruction of it`s culture and civilisation with a enormous loss of population which it can only blame on itself.

Or maybe just a few more braincells.

Quote:However, a concept of dreamish past suitable for this endeavor, consisting of wearing tricorn hats in public with tea bags stabled to each corner - does seem to have gained popularity recently.

They are the same everywhere. From the Hungarian Jobbik raising statues of medieval Kings to Polish nationalists envocing the times of the Polish-Lituanian commonwealth.