(August 18, 2013 at 6:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Here in Illinois, doctors and pharmacists that oppose abortion must violate their sincerely held believes to provide abortion procedures and drugs and they are not permitted to instead refer clients to associates that do not have problems with abortion.

Then, they should have chosen a career which doesn't conflict with their superstition-driven opinions, like short-order cook. A doctor's religious viewpoints should not give them the right to deny medical services to people.

Quote:In this example, the liberties of the person seeking abortion drugs have not been denied. They are free to buy their drugs elsewhere. On the other hand, the pharmacist has been denied her liberty. The State is dictating what she must do.

"The State" has a multitude of rules every pharmacist must follow. Why should religion allow some of them to skirt these rules?

Quote:I recognize the fact that professionals with licenses take on certain obligations to serve the public good, but I do not see forcing them to violate the tenets of their religion a legitimate use of state power. What's the next step, telling observant Jewish pharmacists that they must stay open on Saturday just in case a 13-year old wants to by Plan-B?

"The State" makes no rules regarding mandatory hours a business must be open. Bad comparison.

Quote:In other word, Pro-Abortion groups are imposing their beliefs on people trying to live according to the dictates of their religion. Not the other way around.

Lies and horse shit. Religion-driven lawmakers are using loopholes and altering laws outright with the goal of closing abortion clinics in several states, such as Texas, VIrginia and Alabama. These are instances of clinics run by people who are okay with the idea of abortion, yet are being refused the opportunity to perform them because of the primitive beliefs of lawmakers. Unlike the nebulous idea of 'preserving religious freedom', these Christian dickshitters are putting the lives and health of women at risk, in addition to all the other accessory problems resulting from forcing a person to deliver and raise a child they do not want or cannot care for. So, women unfortunate enough to live in these pisspot theocracies are faced with traveling hundreds of miles and spending thousands of extra dollars, which is simply not an option for many women, especially when they are poor or otherwise disadvantaged.

And you have the gall to piss your panties about 'forcing' people to perform their job ethically. A typical Christian playing the victim.

(August 18, 2013 at 7:56 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(August 18, 2013 at 7:25 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Doesn't really matter how you try to tone it down. You still come across as a pompous and self-righteous asshole.

Coming from a vulgar self-absorbed ass like you, I'll take that as a compliment.

Just as long as you get the point, asshole.

I'm late to this party, but I'll make the point that it works both ways with respect to following universally-held rules in the workplace.

I was a judge's assistant for many years. One of my regular duties was to administer oaths to prospective jurors, qualified jurors, witnesses, language interpreters, etc. By custom and practice, every single one of those oaths required me to include the words, "so help you God," to complete the oath. The only time an exception could be made was if the person receiving the oath objected and preferred to affirm instead of swear. Despite being an atheist, I had zero say in the matter. Nor ought I to have.

See how that works? Roolz is roolz.

I am a professional architect licensed by the State of Illinois. Planned Parenthood asks me to design them an abortion client. They have the right to build a clinic if they want, but they do not have the right to make me design it for them. If the State forces me to provide services against my will, then it has made me into its slave. That is very different from regulations that govern the way in which services are performed in order to protect the public, like following building codes. The apologists for fascism cannot, or will not, make such distinctions. They will force equality on everyone by ax and saw.

(August 19, 2013 at 7:31 am)ChadWooters Wrote: I am a professional architect licensed by the State of Illinois. Planned Parenthood asks me to design them an abortion client. They have the right to build a clinic if they want, but they do not have the right to make me design it for them.

Up to this point, what you write is free of bullshit. And yes, you should insist on your right to not break the ethical codes you have because of work.

Quote:If the State forces me to provide services against my will, then it has made me into its slave.

Now you are beginning to write bullshit.

You should learn the definition of slavery, because a slave has no personal liberties whatsoever! Adding to that, you live in a democracy, so if you dont like supporting social services with your taxes - vote for someone else.

Quote:That is very different from regulations that govern the way in which services are performed in order to protect the public, like following building codes.

A social service is still a social service and if does not work and have the effects that it promisses or when you disagree with it, it is to you to find a viable social alternative. And not to waste other peoples (like me) time by posting pseudophilosophic mental masturbation on what you believe the role of the state to be in society.

Quote:The apologists for fascism cannot, or will not, make such distinctions. They will force equality on everyone by ax and saw.

Idiot!

Your goverment is a democracy. A goverment by the people for the people.
A facist dictatorship is a regime which gained power through force dispite the people. Fascism does not crawl into power through institutionalising policy in a democratic field! That is a debunked conspiracy theory which smell more of shit than anything else. A mental fart used by halfwitted thugs and assholes who are to brainlame to make any rational argumants in support of their motion and who therefor resort to this disgusting lie to support their garbage by inciting fear of fascism amongst the weakminded.

Fascism, just like any other totalitarian system of rule, does not come to power through democratic ways and the state institutions, it comes to power through force and then it establishes itself and it`s policies in goverment institutions.

(August 19, 2013 at 7:31 am)ChadWooters Wrote: I am a professional architect licensed by the State of Illinois. Planned Parenthood asks me to design them an abortion client. They have the right to build a clinic if they want, but they do not have the right to make me design it for them. If the State forces me to provide services against my will, then it has made me into its slave. That is very different from regulations that govern the way in which services are performed in order to protect the public, like following building codes. The apologists for fascism cannot, or will not, make such distinctions. They will force equality on everyone by ax and saw.

You don't think right, do you? What shameless bootstrapping.

You have a right to decide which clients you will take and which you won't. You are free to accept or decline them as a client. But IF YOU TAKE THEIR MONEY AND AGREE TO PROVIDE YOUR SERVICES to build a clinic, then you have made a contract, and you are obliged to provide them with the building they want.

Or are you saying the state can force you to take them as a client? You'll have to show some proof that's happening. Pretty sure it isn't... not even in Illinois.

If you take money to do a job, then you are obliged to do the job as you are required to do -- even if it goes against your personal views. Really, the concept isn't that hard.

(August 18, 2013 at 8:58 pm)Ryantology Wrote: Then, they should have chosen a career which doesn't conflict with their superstition-driven opinions, like short-order cook. A doctor's religious viewpoints should not give them the right to deny medical services to people.

Uh, why not?

1st Amendment

" Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

ps. Your avatar still gets me, every time.

These are not the same things, Chad. If Raeven wants to keep her job, she has to follow the rules in the courtroom, but you, as an architect, are under no duress if you were to decline an job offer.

(August 19, 2013 at 7:31 am)ChadWooters Wrote: I am a professional architect licensed by the State of Illinois. Planned Parenthood asks me to design them an abortion client. They have the right to build a clinic if they want, but they do not have the right to make me design it for them. If the State forces me to provide services against my will, then it has made me into its slave. That is very different from regulations that govern the way in which services are performed in order to protect the public, like following building codes. The apologists for fascism cannot, or will not, make such distinctions. They will force equality on everyone by ax and saw.

The problems with religion in relation to one's job usually arises in careers more directly associated with offering personal aid to humanity, such as being a doctor. Other than those who own private practices, a doctor cannot refuse to help a patient on the grounds that his religious beliefs conflict with that of the patient's beliefs or lifestyle. Well, the doctor can refuse to help the patient, but he will lose his job as a result.

A professional is supposed to put aside his personal religious beliefs while on the job.

(August 19, 2013 at 8:02 am)missluckie26 Wrote: Uh, why not?

You keep forgetting the part where you take money to do a job according to its standards. You may exercise your rights in whatever way you choose, right up to the point that you take a paycheck to do the work as it is required. From that point forward, you have entered into a contractual obligation to do your job. In exchange for money.