AHAHAH! I've read the whole thread!
You bastards, having a party without me!??!!
And where's Esquilax? He'd like to say something too!
Oh well, it seems I got here first, so... allow me to explain how logic works, because it seems this 16yo muslim who thinks god is the logical answer to the origin of the universe has a lack of understanding.
Logic is the reasoning that goes from premises to conclusions.
Given sound premises, you arrive at sound conclusions.
Given faulty premises, you arrive at faulty conclusions.
Now, let's see what's going on in your mind....
(August 29, 2013 at 7:33 pm)yoleeena Wrote: Okay, so atheists say the universe started with a Big Bang, which I don't disagree with BUT
Good, no Adam&Eve BS polluting your mind, congratz... I hope.
(August 29, 2013 at 7:33 pm)yoleeena Wrote: The 'thing' that exploded or whatever to create the universe, where did that come from?
I don't know. No one knows. Theories abound, but actual observation to corroborate any of them is lacking.
(August 29, 2013 at 7:33 pm)yoleeena Wrote: I mean, everything has to come from somewhere right? As in, you can produce something from nothing, because you had nothing to work with to start with. This is what my common says tells me anyway
Your common sense cannot apply to this argument known as "the cosmological argument".
This cosmological argument is usually stated somewhat like this:
P1) Everything that exists, has a cause
P2) The Universe exists
hence
C1) The Universe has a cause
C2) The cause of the Universe is outside of it
Nothing more can be said just from these premises.
But the real problem here is that the "Everything" in P1 applies only to what is within our Universe. That's where you common sense works rather well.
It is, however, completely unqualified to make any statement about something from the outside (whatever that may mean).
Let me make a list to illustrate.
- My car exists because it was assembled from it's parts.
- The wheel is made of rubber that was made from carbohydrates.
- carbohydrates form out of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms
- Carbon atoms formed out of protons and electrons.
- protons formed out of quarks
- quarks formed out of.... superstrings, maybe?... we don't know... it seems to have happened in the big bang.
So, if P1 is unqualified to state anything about nothing turning into something, then C1 cannot follow, much less C2. That's logic. Enjoy it.
(August 29, 2013 at 7:33 pm)yoleeena Wrote: So yeah, that tiny thing that exploded, it must have come from somewhere so how do atheists explain this?
Now, if you were paying attention, all these things were made out of other existing things. Everything our common sense can understand had a cause and is formed of other things.
What was there before the big bang to form quarks? I don't know.
Theories exist and you've been pointed in their direction:
- Virtual particles popping in and out of real space:
- Big-bang -> big-crunch->big- bang neverending eternal cycles?
and many other theories can be thought up, none of them involving an extra-universal complex sentient entity capable of generating these structures called universes.
You add what is called the "god hypothesis" into the mix of possible explanations and claim that it is completely logical and, since the other options haven't been proven, this is the one that's real... forgetting the fact that this too hasn't been proven... but you'd like it to be so, or else 1 billion people would be wrong, right?
Not counting with the 2 billion christians who would also be wrong... and the other half-billion of hindus.
Given the requirement for such a complex creature to exist in such an extraordinary set of circumstances, science disregards this hypothesis by attributing it a very low probability of being an accurate description of reality. (Please note how and which words are used here, as it's important!)
When such a time comes in which evidence for this hypothesis comes by, then it will be considered.
Now, why would the god hypothesis have so many adherents? Why do people claim to have experiences with a particular god?
Psychology answers that, but I'll only state that the mind is an awesome organ, capable of great many things.
Here's a nice quote:
Quote:If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.
Attributed to Goebbels in Publications Relating to Various Aspects of Communism (1946), by United States Congress, House Committee on Un-American Activities, Issues 1-15, p.19, no reliable source has been located, and this is probably simply a further variation of the Big Lie idea
in
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels
