(September 12, 2013 at 9:37 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: That's the worst advice possible for someone to give.

Staying with a spouse in a relationship that has no love nor commitment will do nothing positive for your children.

I didn't tell him to do this. I told him to stay and commit himself to the relationship.

Quote:In this instance, much better to seperate and love your kids without the baggage of an unworkable failing relationship than to love them through a front for the sake of appearances.

But it's even better to stay together and build a working successful relationship.

---

(September 12, 2013 at 9:09 am)LastPoet Wrote: So it would be preferable to you that the man that doesn't love his wife anymore (or vice-versa), should remain in the home, with all the attrition that can and surely happen?

No, I think he should learn to love his wife, and that attrition isn't a sure thing. People do fix marriages, and the problem put forth in this thread is extremely common. That's why I suggested he list the good things about his wife. It's one way to start changing thought patterns and fix things.

A lot of you are treating a spouse as if it's a used car. It isn't.

(September 12, 2013 at 10:55 am)John V Wrote:

(September 12, 2013 at 9:37 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: That's the worst advice possible for someone to give.

Staying with a spouse in a relationship that has no love nor commitment will do nothing positive for your children.

I didn't tell him to do this. I told him to stay and commit himself to the relationship.

Quote:In this instance, much better to seperate and love your kids without the baggage of an unworkable failing relationship than to love them through a front for the sake of appearances.

But it's even better to stay together and build a working successful relationship.

It's better to build a relationship that works, for sure, but only if it can work.

Reality shows us that often it doesn't, and can't, no matter how much you put into it. People split up through no fault of their own. It could e that you've grown apart, or the other person has done something that destroys all trust, or whatever. Sometimes it takes a bigger man/woman to admit that and walk away whilst keeping true to the commitments you've formed by when you had a baby. And by that I mean ensuring you're both apart of that child's life to the maximum degree possible. This is much healthier than sticking it out in a household where you and your partner end up building resentment to one another, which will certainly impact on the mental and physical wellbeing of your child.

You can commit yourself to a relationship all you want, but if you're not getting anything back, then you're just deluding yourself into thinking it's working or that you're happy.

(September 12, 2013 at 11:03 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: It's better to build a relationship that works, for sure, but only if it can work.

OK, then he should work at it until it's proven that it can't work, right?

Quote:You can commit yourself to a relationship all you want, but if you're not getting anything back, then you're just deluding yourself into thinking it's working or that you're happy.

What's reasonable to expect to get back, particularly when there's a young child involved?

Avoid the temptation. Do sweet things
for your spouse. Stay home. Make love
with your wife. Take a walk together.
Find a new favorite spot to dine out.

(September 12, 2013 at 11:41 am)John V Wrote:

(September 12, 2013 at 11:03 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: It's better to build a relationship that works, for sure, but only if it can work.

OK, then he should work at it until it's proven that it can't work, right?

Quote:You can commit yourself to a relationship all you want, but if you're not getting anything back, then you're just deluding yourself into thinking it's working or that you're happy.

What's reasonable to expect to get back, particularly when there's a young child involved?

I agree, John, that a couple should work at it until its given up the ghost. Completely agree. I'm referring to when people stay together for no other reason than when they hae a child. I apologise if that's not what you were referring to.

(September 11, 2013 at 10:44 pm)festive1 Wrote:

(September 10, 2013 at 12:13 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Meanwhile, I feel my wife and I beginning to fall away from each other, and it makes me wonder if I should let us go while we both still have time to meet someone new. I don't know. Life is such a mixed up journey and you don't always know if you've made the right choice till it's too late.

Do you and your wife get much time alone, one on one? I know, for me, once we had our first kid both my husband and I were in a perpetual state of parenting mode. Which left little time for the two of us to be close and connected. I miss the fact that we can't just go out because we feel like it, or have a quiet dinner at home together talking. This was a big problem for us until we started proactively scheduling time to spend together. It sucks having to prearrange things, line up a sitter, not to mention its more expensive since we have to pay someone to watch the kids on top of what it costs to go out. But sometimes we just simply plan to put the kids to bed early. Typically, we'll let them read books in bed, so long as they stay there quietly. But it gives us some much needed couple time.

I think this too is good advice. It's people like you that have something to offer to this thread.
No, we don't get much time alone. Like everyone else, we're both very busy maintaining the life we have created around us.
In truth, I don't think it would be all that difficult to get back some of that spark we've lost.

The OP was meant to stir conversation among rational people who may have some insight on monogamy and the like. I was looking for some truth about the reality of living with the same person for an entire lifetime. I already know what John V and the rest of the sheep have to say about it - they're a bunch of halfwit fucktards who follow the scribblings of primitives - they have nothing legitimate or useful to add.

The truth is I was never going to cheat on my wife, but can anyone really ever rule out divorce? (rhetorical) I find it interesting though that in a "weakened" state of marital harmony, one can find themselves very drawn to a new potential partner. The majority of us here are not believers in some kind of higher moral directive and yet not a one of us has said, "you should go bang that chick." This of course was no surprise to me, as us non-believers often have a much higher ethical code than the christians. However, I was a mildly surprised that only one really recognized the value and the good that can come from divorce. Mind you, I'm not looking for validation to get a divorce. I'm looking for insight on the entire topic.

What makes people bored with someone they use to dream about?
What happens to people when they become parents that makes them miserable bastards?
Why do some couples change so effortlessly together while others slowly fade apart?

This woman I met in a chance meeting had nothing to do with my current situation. She can't be at fault.

Is it nature?
Were people meant to be monogamous couples their whole lives? Is that nature?
Is it all our fault? Is it only partially our fault? None?
Why does a piece of paper make leaving a partner so much worse than two people who have never put their names on a marriage license?

Unmarried people have children all the time. If they separate, people don't seem to blink an eye. Are we just as brainwashed as the christians or is there some biological cause in there somewhere?

(September 13, 2013 at 10:21 am)Cinjin Wrote: The OP was meant to stir conversation among rational people who may have some insight on monogamy and the like. I was looking for some truth about the reality of living with the same person for an entire lifetime.

My grand parents from my father's side... well, not really my grandparents... they were my dad's uncles and his caregivers since his 13th birthday, so, for all intents and purposes, they were my grandparents.
They lived together for over 50 years... till death did them... I don't know how the saying goes...
Anyway, one of the really cool things I learned from their relationship was to learn when to just quit nagging the other party.
I witnessed some discussions (over small things, sure... but this can extrapolate to larger discussions), and they all ended when one of them just didn't care about it anymore... usually, at the 2nd or 3rd reply, so very early on the discussion... you could miss it, if you weren't paying attention. Just a shrug of shoulders and they were friends again.


As far as I see the long term relationship that marriage is, it relies heavily on being friends.
Love, sex and the likes all play a role, but what requires work is the friendship.
It's so easy to get angry at someone for something trivial and then just let that escalate into something that drives you two apart

(September 13, 2013 at 10:36 am)pocaracas Wrote: It's so easy to get angry at someone for something trivial and then just let that escalate into something that drives you two apart

I hear that.

I've been with my girlfriend for 6 and a half years, but recently we've been arguing loads. I put it down to stress on my part because I've got a lot going on at the moment with a dying father and work etc. I take it out on her sometimes, and I shouldn't.

Got a lot of apologising to do myself.

(September 13, 2013 at 10:21 am)Cinjin Wrote: What makes people bored with someone they use to dream about?

Because before you have something you are making up rosy fiction about it all. Reality never works out like that.

(September 13, 2013 at 10:21 am)Cinjin Wrote: What happens to people when they become parents that makes them miserable bastards?

Miserable? I don't think being a parent has ever made me miserable. It is more stressful. Living only for yourself with no responsibilities toward someone unable to care for themselves is way easier, I'll admit.

(September 13, 2013 at 10:21 am)Cinjin Wrote: Why do some couples change so effortlessly together while others slowly fade apart?

I don't think anyone does it effortlessly. Most people would think that about my wife and I. But, hell, that definitely isn't the truth. Far from it.

(September 13, 2013 at 10:21 am)Cinjin Wrote: Is it nature?

I don't know.

(September 13, 2013 at 10:21 am)Cinjin Wrote: Were people meant to be monogamous couples their whole lives? Is that nature?

I don't know that either. I've read studies that support both monogamy for life and serial monogamy. Probably more serial monogamy in a natural state for our species.

(September 13, 2013 at 10:21 am)Cinjin Wrote: Is it all our fault? Is it only partially our fault? None?

*Shrugs*

(September 13, 2013 at 10:21 am)Cinjin Wrote: Why does a piece of paper make leaving a partner so much worse than two people who have never put their names on a marriage license?

Married couples compared to non married cohabitating couples show a lot of differences. Even with children. Non married parents split up much more frequently. They have less combining of their individual assets. Kids have more issues in life. Etc.

Being legally married does have a psychological impact on couples and changes their behavior in a relationship. The benefits to any children in the relationship is stark.

(September 13, 2013 at 10:21 am)Cinjin Wrote: Unmarried people have children all the time. If they separate, people don't seem to blink an eye. Are we just as brainwashed as the christians or is there some biological cause in there somewhere?

The odd thing is that it used to only be poorly educated people (less than high school education) that were averse to marriage. Moderately educated (High school, maybe some college) and highly educated (college graduate) were still getting married in high numbers.

Now the poorly educated and moderately educated are both eschewing marriage. Whereas the highly educated are still marrying in around the same numbers as always while the numbers who divorce is dropping. Divorce for those that marry now are much lower for my generation than the baby boomers.

Due to the benefits of parental marriage to the children (less risky sexual activity, higher educational attainment, fewer experiencing poverty, lower rates of alcohol and drug abuse, etc) some sociologists are fretting that we are seeing the beginning of a class divide in our society.

I don't really know. I've read things, but they're just studies.

For me, I take marriage seriously, and I take being a husband and a father in a family seriously. To each their own though. There's not a one size fits all.

(September 13, 2013 at 10:21 am)Cinjin Wrote: Unmarried people have children all the time. If they separate, people don't seem to blink an eye. Are we just as brainwashed as the christians or is there some biological cause in there somewhere?

I've watched family do this and it can be just as difficult as within a marriage and sometimes more, depending on the circumstances.