(September 23, 2013 at 8:48 pm)catfish Wrote:

(September 23, 2013 at 8:31 pm)Airyaman Wrote: Let's analyze this a bit deeper shall we?

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Perhaps the writer of this epistle had a certain party of individuals in mind, but his description would truly match any unbeliever, no? After all, what atheist confesses that Jesus Christ -- the biblical version -- came in the flesh? Not many, I would wager. Therefore, this verse does cover unbelievers with that statement, and the writer is saying that such people are deceivers and the antichrist.

We can clear this matter up quickly if you can either get the original epistle writer or Jesus to set the record straight.

You ask two questions and somehow just asking produces a "therefore"?
Perhaps you should read the whole chapter and your first question will be answered. Perhaps you should also take what you learn from reading the whole chapter and apply John V's explanation. Therefore you were incorrect.

I do not confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, and I am an unbeliever. I feel fairly certain that most of my fellow atheists would be in the same boat. Does this verse not say that we are deceivers and antichrist by the statement "those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh"?

OK, quick poll: all atheists who confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh say "aye".

I believe he came out of a goat herder's ass. Does that count?

(September 23, 2013 at 8:56 pm)Airyaman Wrote:

(September 23, 2013 at 8:48 pm)catfish Wrote: You ask two questions and somehow just asking produces a "therefore"?
Perhaps you should read the whole chapter and your first question will be answered. Perhaps you should also take what you learn from reading the whole chapter and apply John V's explanation. Therefore you were incorrect.

I do not confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, and I am an unbeliever. I feel fairly certain that most of my fellow atheists would be in the same boat. Does this verse not say that we are deceivers and antichrist by the statement "those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh"?

OK, quick poll: all atheists who confess that Jesus Christian came in the flesh say "aye".

So that's a "no", you won't read the chapter then?

How do you know he didn't come into a goat herd...er, nvm. He did spend most of his time with twelve other guys though, just sayin'.

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(September 23, 2013 at 9:06 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: I believe he came out of a goat herder's ass. Does that count?

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(September 23, 2013 at 9:14 pm)catfish Wrote: So that's a "no", you won't read the chapter then?

Already read it. Nothing in the context would exclude us nonbelievers because the statement "those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh" won't allow for it.

(September 23, 2013 at 9:15 pm)Airyaman Wrote: How do you know he didn't come into a goat herd...er, nvm. He did spend most of his time with twelve other guys though, just sayin'.

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(September 23, 2013 at 9:06 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: I believe he came out of a goat herder's ass. Does that count?

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(September 23, 2013 at 9:14 pm)catfish Wrote: So that's a "no", you won't read the chapter then?

Already read it. Nothing in the context would exclude us nonbelievers because the statement "those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh" won't allow for it.

So, you claim to be one of those people 2000+ years ago who were attempting to teach in church that Christ was a spiritual-only being?

However, deceiver seems to fit the bill with you...

If you were paying attention I made a complete case in one single post earlier in this thread with bible verses alone. Which you've summarily ignored, then re-ignored when I put all my posts together for your convenience.

bible Wrote:1 John 5:10-12
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

And.. what happens to liars? God's wrath.

bible Wrote:Revelation 19:11-21 ESV

Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. ...

He seems very angry for someone who is cleaning up a mess he made on purpose in the first place.

bible Wrote:John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.


Romans 6:23 ESV

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

According to your bible, I sin just like you sin. Difference being it's okay for you because you have Jesus Christ to wash them away afterwards.

bible Wrote:Revelation 20:15 ESV
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

It's quite clear here what happens to those not in the book of life. Cue squiggling now.

(September 23, 2013 at 9:30 pm)catfish Wrote: So, you claim to be one of those people 2000+ years ago who were attempting to teach in church that Christ was a spiritual-only being?

However, deceiver seems to fit the bill with you...

So now all of a sudden the bible only applies to people 2000 years ago? Well, damn, what are we discussing any of this for then?

(September 23, 2013 at 9:50 pm)Airyaman Wrote:

(September 23, 2013 at 9:30 pm)catfish Wrote: So, you claim to be one of those people 2000+ years ago who were attempting to teach in church that Christ was a spiritual-only being?

However, deceiver seems to fit the bill with you...

So now all of a sudden the bible only applies to people 2000 years ago? Well, damn, what are we discussing any of this for then?

You claimed to know the context, did you not?

1. Who was the letter written to?
2. What was the letter about?

...and ignored X3

This is why I don't take you serious, catfish. I still think you're a poe.

(September 23, 2013 at 9:52 pm)catfish Wrote:

(September 23, 2013 at 9:50 pm)Airyaman Wrote: So now all of a sudden the bible only applies to people 2000 years ago? Well, damn, what are we discussing any of this for then?

You claimed to know the context, did you not?

No. I simply listed one verse with the qualifier "those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh", which accurately describes mosts atheists.

Quote:1. Who was the letter written to?

Some elect lady and her children. No names appear to be listed (odd how "anonymous" is the default character in the new testament)

Quote:2. What was the letter about?

I don't know, i didn't write it. You?