Morality is the most powerful and well understood language, bar any other dialect. Morality is not hazy and subjective, it is very cut and dry really.

For example, a parent that hits their child, yet says to the child "hitting other people is wrong" this inevitably sends the message to the child that rule makers do not need to follow the rules they inflict on others. Kids, especially, take this very seriously. Most kids that are hit, will most likely be more violent, since that is the morality, or lack of morality they learned.

Or if a parent peacefully negotiates with a child, that child will inevitably pick up and become proficient in non violent communication, where they can use their negotiation skills in all aspects of life, relationships, business, etc. However the child that has been brutalised, learning about peaceful communication is like starting a new language from scratch, it is very hard for someone that has only been taught violence, to learn peace. As it would be hard for someone that has not been taught or exposed to Chinese, being able to speak Chinese.

Teaching a child that 'rule makers do not need to follow the rules' or naturally makes them more susceptible to people who speak the same language, violent or abusive husbands/wives, associates, and even larger institutions that run on hypocrisy and irrationality like states or religions. Such institutions can not exist when a society is fluent in negotiation and peaceful communication.

A useful mental exercise to do, is when speaking to someone, ask yourself 'what moral language is this person speaking?', are they not using reason and evidence to make a claim?, are they telling you to do something as a threat of violence?, are they verbally abusing you for not agreeing with you? most importantly; are they following there own rules?. If people are communicating any of this, you should avoid them as much as possible, since you will pick up that language in some way. If you are surrounded and exposed to religious people, some of their irrationality will be passed on to you, the same with statists, who praise and talk about the virtues of initiating force upon people, you will take on that immoral message subconsciously weather you like it or not. It's annoyingly obvious, but the sheer amount of exposure we have to hypocrisy and irrationality in modern culture, it's easy to forget such a simple concept.

Not necessarily. A child can be a nice person even if the child is mistreated or abused, however, it's not good when it comes to the mental state area, and can be harmful, but not necessarily making the person aggresive. When it comes to what is evil, it has to do with what a person is teaching a child to think. In my opinion atleast.

(September 24, 2013 at 1:01 pm)Moira Wrote: Not necessarily. A child can be a nice person even if the child is mistreated or abused, however, it's not good when it comes to the mental state area, and can be harmful, but not necessarily making the person aggresive. When it comes to what is evil, it has to do with what a person is teaching a child to think. In my opinion atleast.

We can put in a lot of work and learn a new language that we were not initially taught. But obviously it would take a lot of time to become fluent in a new language, for an abused and brutalised child to then go on and learn about peaceful interactions, would be incredibly difficult. It is possible, but not probable, although we can never 'unlearn' a language, someone that has been taught english, can never not know english. Someone abused, can never not know abuse. which is why child abuse is so heinous, it scars them for life.

*yawn*
What else is on?

I don't know about all that but you've obviously made up your own rules when it comes to punctuation use.

I really want to see a discussion on morality as a dessert topping.

For a moment I thought this read 'mortality' which actually made more sense.

(September 24, 2013 at 12:54 pm)Koolay Wrote: Morality is the most powerful and well understood language, bar any other dialect. Morality is not hazy and subjective, it is very cut and dry really.

For example, a parent that hits their child, yet says to the child "hitting other people is wrong" this inevitably sends the message to the child that rule makers do not need to follow the rules they inflict on others. Kids, especially, take this very seriously. Most kids that are hit, will most likely be more violent, since that is the morality, or lack of morality they learned.

Or if a parent peacefully negotiates with a child, that child will inevitably pick up and become proficient in non violent communication, where they can use their negotiation skills in all aspects of life, relationships, business, etc. However the child that has been brutalised, learning about peaceful communication is like starting a new language from scratch, it is very hard for someone that has only been taught violence, to learn peace. As it would be hard for someone that has not been taught or exposed to Chinese, being able to speak Chinese.

Teaching a child that 'rule makers do not need to follow the rules' or naturally makes them more susceptible to people who speak the same language, violent or abusive husbands/wives, associates, and even larger institutions that run on hypocrisy and irrationality like states or religions. Such institutions can not exist when a society is fluent in negotiation and peaceful communication.

A useful mental exercise to do, is when speaking to someone, ask yourself 'what moral language is this person speaking?', are they not using reason and evidence to make a claim?, are they telling you to do something as a threat of violence?, are they verbally abusing you for not agreeing with you? most importantly; are they following there own rules?. If people are communicating any of this, you should avoid them as much as possible, since you will pick up that language in some way. If you are surrounded and exposed to religious people, some of their irrationality will be passed on to you, the same with statists, who praise and talk about the virtues of initiating force upon people, you will take on that immoral message subconsciously weather you like it or not. It's annoyingly obvious, but the sheer amount of exposure we have to hypocrisy and irrationality in modern culture, it's easy to forget such a simple concept.

I find this hard to accept. I don't like abuse or being abused, although I have experienced abuse from other people, and it made me sad, but I don't abuse others, I try not to. Abuse is more likely to make someone scared of ever connecting with another human being again. I've contemplated never connecting with another human being again, but life is too long for that, even though it is short. You are right. Deceit, hypocrisy, and irrationality are observable human traits.

(September 24, 2013 at 12:54 pm)Koolay Wrote: Or if a parent peacefully negotiates with a child, that child will inevitably pick up and become proficient in non violent communication

Oh, I couldn't disagree more. I know of children that were never spanked or slapped or even threatened with some kind of physical punishment. These kids grew up to be perfect assholes because they were taught: I can say and do anything I want and no one can hurt me.

I've been waiting to hear how any one of them got their heads beat in for being such morons.

(September 24, 2013 at 12:54 pm)Koolay Wrote: Morality is the most powerful and well understood language, bar any other dialect. Morality is not hazy and subjective, it is very cut and dry really.

I find this entire paragraph very debateable in every assertion.

Quote:For example, a parent that hits their child, yet says to the child "hitting other people is wrong" this inevitably sends the message to the child that rule makers do not need to follow the rules they inflict on others. Kids, especially, take this very seriously. Most kids that are hit, will most likely be more violent, since that is the morality, or lack of morality they learned.

It can, but unless it's done so repeatedly I find it unlikely that the child will get that message from a single instance.

Quote:Or if a parent peacefully negotiates with a child, that child will inevitably pick up and become proficient in non violent communication, where they can use their negotiation skills in all aspects of life, relationships, business, etc. However the child that has been brutalised, learning about peaceful communication is like starting a new language from scratch, it is very hard for someone that has only been taught violence, to learn peace. As it would be hard for someone that has not been taught or exposed to Chinese, being able to speak Chinese.

...Or a chiod that has been largely exposed to violence will realize that's not something they'd like to emulate given they've bern on the receiving end of it, and strive for nonviolence.

Quote:A useful mental exercise to do, is when speaking to someone, ask yourself 'what moral language is this person speaking?', are they not using reason and evidence to make a claim?, are they telling you to do something as a threat of violence?, are they verbally abusing you for not agreeing with you? most importantly; are they following there own rules?. If people are communicating any of this, you should avoid them as much as possible, since you will pick up that language in some way. If you are surrounded and exposed to religious people, some of their irrationality will be passed on to you, the same with statists, who praise and talk about the virtues of initiating force upon people, you will take on that immoral message subconsciously weather you like it or not. It's annoyingly obvious, but the sheer amount of exposure we have to hypocrisy and irrationality in modern culture, it's easy to forget such a simple concept.

A lot of this just one assertion after another. I live around theists, and I cannot detect where - if at all - where their irrationality was 'passed on' to me.