Scientist A: "Blargoxium is the newest element, I have discovered it"
Scientist B: "I will now find evidence to deny this".

^^ When does this ever happen in reality? Rather, its

Scientist A: "Blargoxium is the newest element, I have discovered it"
Scientist B: "Interesting. What information do you have to support your claim?"

I think the real question is does theism in fact make a positive claim? Theism refers to a belief in the existence of god(s) not having absolute knowledge that god(s) exist. Otherwise there'd be no sense in (among other things) the 'dark night of the soul'. Theists tend to be very understanding of [some degree of] doubt, so it can't really be said that theism is a positive knowledge clai I think.
Atheism is a nullification or absence of that.

But beliefs can fail to correspond to reality (i.e truth), and holding a belief may not in fact count as making a 'positive' claim. For example, I believe that the reality I perceive via my senses is as I experience it to be, but am I making a 'positive' claim to knowledge here, or merely a statement a belief? I can neither assess whether that belief is true, or the contrary (solipsism) is true, because in principle it appears unknowable.

I may be rambling here. :3

(September 27, 2013 at 12:02 am)MindForgedManacle Wrote: I think the real question is does theism in fact make a positive claim? Theism refers to a belief in the existence of god(s) not having absolute knowledge that god(s) exist. Otherwise there'd be no sense in (among other things) the 'dark night of the soul'. Theists tend to be very understanding of [some degree of] doubt, so it can't really be said that theism is a positive knowledge clai I think.
Atheism is a nullification or absence of that.

But beliefs can fail to correspond to reality (i.e truth), and holding a belief may not in fact count as making a 'positive' claim. For example, I believe that the reality I perceive via my senses is as I experience it to be, but am I making a 'positive' claim to knowledge here, or merely a statement a belief? I can neither assess whether that belief is true, or the contrary (solipsism) is true, because in principle it appears unknowable.

I may be rambling here. :3

If a theist says I have no idea if god exists, it's a matter of faith. I don't see a problem with that. They are welcome to give up pleasures just to invest in an imaginary afterlife that they believe in.

But if they say, this is the truth and I know it, then yes, they have the burden of proof. How many theists have you met that has admitted to you that they do not know if god exists and that there's a possibility he doesn't? I've only met one like that, and surprisingly it was a muslim.

What the hell does Kenny G have to do with anything?!?! Nightmares from my childhood. :eek:

(September 27, 2013 at 12:09 am)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: If a theist says I have no idea if god exists, it's a matter of faith. I don't see a problem with that. They are welcome to give up pleasures just to invest in an imaginary afterlife that they believe in.

But if they say, this is the truth and I know it, then yes, they have the burden of proof. How many theists have you met that has admitted to you that they do not know if god exists and that there's a possibility he doesn't? I've only met one like that, and surprisingly it was a muslim.

Well I haven't met him, but Søren Kierkegaard made such a claim, that such was entirely a matter of faith. He did after all coin the 'leap to faith' (improperly rendered nowadays as the 'leap of faith'). Granted, most theists today probably wouldn't agree with that.

And as I say, some theists have some tolerance (maybe not a lot) with the prospect of doubt. Hence the so-called "dark nights of the soul".

(September 27, 2013 at 12:12 am)c172 Wrote: What the hell does Kenny G have to do with anything?!?! Nightmares from my childhood. :eek:

You and Mr./Ms. Garrison should start a support group, m'kay?

(September 27, 2013 at 12:01 am)Airyaman Wrote: Scientist A: "Blargoxium is the newest element, I have discovered it"
Scientist B: "I will now find evidence to deny this".

^^ When does this ever happen in reality? Rather, its

Scientist A: "Blargoxium is the newest element, I have discovered it"
Scientist B: "Interesting. What information do you have to support your claim?"

Actually, the discussion is more like this:

Scientist A: "I have discovered the newest element Blargoxium!"
Scientist B: "You have provided insufficient proof of your discovery! I do not believe Blargoxium exists!"
Scientist A: "What is sufficient proof?"
Scientist B: "No idea! Whatever proof you bring, is insufficient!"

Thanks for showing that you have no idea how peer review works.

Holy shitsnacks! There are 18 guests watching Vaginal B.(elch) make an ass of himself right now.

I'm doing that and watching The Avengers with the Mrs right now. Multitasking FTW.