(September 27, 2013 at 9:26 pm)Gilgamesh Wrote:

(September 27, 2013 at 9:11 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: But what I'm really interested in is your denial of (b). Would you say that it's okay to be an atheist while simultaneously holding that one's own atheism is irrational?

No. I'll outright say I think theism is irrational, while atheism rational. I'm not claiming that all forms of theism are incorrect. I'm saying I believe they are on the basis that I've never been presented supporting evidence to back their claims.

Okay, so you affirm my statement of (b), that an atheist must also affirm that "atheism is more rational than theism", or at minimum, "atheism is rational."

Why in the world would you say (b) is not required to be an atheist then?

Are you going by the "It's Vinny, so I can't agree with anything he says" criterion?

But besides that, your reasoning is interesting.

You're saying atheism is rational and theism is irrational because no evidence has been presented for theism?

How does that reasoning work, for, say quantum mechanics? "Prior to sixth grade, I saw no evidence for quantum mechanics. So quantum mechanics became rational in the sixth grade".

I think you're defining rationality/irrationality subjectively, as in "Theism is irrational to me, atheism is rational to me". But by definition, subjective definitions are independent of reality. So in reality, theism could be rational while atheism is irrational.

(September 27, 2013 at 9:38 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: How does that reasoning work, for, say quantum mechanics? "Prior to sixth grade, I saw no evidence for quantum mechanics. So quantum mechanics became rational in the sixth grade".

The difference is that quantum mechanics does exist for anyone to understand and know that it does exist. The same cannot be stated for god.

Just because someone is unaware of something that already exists in the world does not mean it does not exist because of his not being aware of it. If there is verifiable proof to support its existence, it will exist despite people being ignorant of its existence. The same cannot be stated for god, because there is absolutely no verifiable evidence to support god's existence.

(September 27, 2013 at 9:42 pm)Maelstrom Wrote:

(September 27, 2013 at 9:38 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: How does that reasoning work, for, say quantum mechanics? "Prior to sixth grade, I saw no evidence for quantum mechanics. So quantum mechanics became rational in the sixth grade".

The difference is that quantum mechanics does exist for anyone to understand and know that it does exist. The same cannot be stated for god.

Just because someone is unaware of something that already exists in the world does not mean it does not exist because of his not being aware of it. If there is verifiable proof to support its existence, it will exist despite people being ignorant of its existence. The same cannot be stated for god, because there is absolutely no verifiable evidence to support god's existence.

The purported "evidence for God" exists in much the same way as the "evidence for QM".

The problem is not that it doesn't exist. The problem is that it's not easily accessible. You need a little critical thinking. Some arguments require a background in symbolic or modal logic. Most of the proponents spend their life in offices, classrooms and research libraries rather than on TV and in newspapers.

They're not spoonfed like the marketing drivel we mindlessly absorb 24/7. You have to do a little legwork. Or, if you care to have a discussion, you have to stop behaving like a monkey. Not you, I mean the people here in general.

Why, then, is knowing the existence of god of such importance, yet it's nearly impossible for a common man to contemplate and comprehend without years of studying this so-called evidence? And you wonder why we dismiss your pretty words as drivel.

(September 27, 2013 at 11:02 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: And you wonder why we dismiss your pretty words as drivel.

His words are not so much pretty as they are dripping with hooey.

I was feeling generous

(September 27, 2013 at 11:02 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: Why, then, is knowing the existence of god of such importance, yet it's nearly impossible for a common man to contemplate and comprehend without years of studying this so-called evidence? And you wonder why we dismiss your pretty words as drivel.

Would we presume that people who made a big deal about their aleprechaunism and posted all day on aleprechaunistforums.org were indifferent to the existence of leprechauns?

I'm not so sure...

Consider it a public service. We give up our time to tell idiots that their fairy tales are a load of shit.

There. I've done my good deed for the day.

It's not important to know when you've been duped? (Rhetorical question, dumbass)

Okay your shifting the burden of proof, which in academia would have your ass written off as a quack, and everyone in academia understands this.
However you want proof, here is a little on the Christian god.

Quote:Can you provide proof or evidence that atheism is accurate and correct?
This is often ask by youtube user shock of god, often in a very rude manner, well here is the answer in writing.

first off I'm not even going to bother with what is wrong with this phrasing and just say this. I think he is asking can you prove god does not exists.
Now since shock of god is a christian, then that means his claim of god is the bible and please note that since the bible is the claim, then it cannot be used as evidence that the bible is true or you get circular reasoning. So I present the following.
1. Since atheism is simply a rejection of religious claims, it has no burden of proof and if christians had proof they would not have to use logical fallacies such as shifting the burden of proof to make a argument.
2. The bible makes easily falsified claims, for example genesis 1:11 tells us that the vegetation of the earth was created before the sun. Now a earth without a sun would be something like -180 celsuis and permanently dark. Here I purpose a little experiment, take your mother's petunia or any potted plant and find a large deep freeze and put it in there, and then observe the results. There more disprovable claims then that too E.G plants after noahs flood.
3. Balant contradictions in the bible. For example in 1 john 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
But in exodus 33:11
The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.
And in Genesis 32:22-32 22
That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27 The man asked him, “What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.
28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[a] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
29 Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.
30 So Jacob called the place Peniel,[b] saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”
31 The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel,[c] and he was limping because of his hip. 32 Therefore to this day the Israelites do not eat the tendon attached to the socket of the hip, because the socket of Jacob’s hip was touched near the tendon.
4. Balant design flaws in human anatomy E.G A jaw that is too small to fit all the teeth, the appendix, and the fact that we use one tube for eating and breathing. These are easily avoided design flaws that would have any engineer fired. If adam did have these flaws corrected before the fall then adam would have been a different species from us, probably even a different genus.
5. The positioning of the earth in a inner solar filled with asteriods that could easily wipe out life on earth, agian a glaring over that now sapient designer would make.

So you asked for evidence, there it is.

Here is the link to my original post.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-20609.html
Or and here is a another post I made too on the subject
http://atheistforums.org/thread-20852.html