(September 30, 2013 at 8:52 pm)Ryantology Wrote: Of course, they deserved to die anyway for committing the crime of being born, so fuck em.

Is that the new motto of the Republican Party?

(October 1, 2013 at 2:16 pm)John V Wrote: If you told me a neighbor of yours was a nice and kind man then proceeded to tell me he was a judge who routinely handed out punishment to criminals, I wouldn't see a contradiction. How come you cannot see that with my god?

But let's say the neighbor was very jealous, played favoritism to extremes, taught people how to acquire free labor, supported the idea of raping teenage women after stealing them from households where everyone was killed, punished women for having their periods, loved the burning of animals as well as people, constantly changed his opinion and tortured people for not saying that he was a great guy. That would be closer to your god.

Quote:If you told me a neighbor of yours was a nice and kind man then proceeded to tell me he was a judge who routinely handed out punishment to criminals, I wouldn't see a contradiction. How come you cannot see that with my god?

I would then show you that favoring certain people because of race. I would tell you that he routinely handed out the death penalty, just for parking tickets. That his rules were not of a reasonable governments but a sad and jealous individual. I would then probably reveal that he was not a judge but a dictator, but the most vile and oppressive dictator in history.


The fact that you can actually even entertain the idea that the Christian god is a fair judge after reading the bible is mind breakingly ridiculous.

(October 1, 2013 at 2:16 pm)John V Wrote: If you told me a neighbor of yours was a nice and kind man then proceeded to tell me he was a judge who routinely handed out punishment to criminals, I wouldn't see a contradiction. How come you cannot see that with my god?

You always do this, you keep setting up comparisons that are invalid. Judges are appointed, god just assumes the right to govern us without our consent. That's tyranny, and we're under no obligation to find the cruel whims of a tyrant to be "punishment," because there's no guarantee that they're just. I'd submit to you that the whims of your god are not just, and thus do not fit in with any real criteria of punishment, because being born is not a wrongdoing.

The real comparison would go like this: if you told me your neighbor was nice and kind, and then proceeded to tell me he had appointed himself as an "arbiter of morality" and kidnapped anyone who did something he disapproved of, locked them in his basement and tortured them forever, would you see the contradiction?

Try this version - I think it reads a little differently:

If you told me a neighbour of yours was a nice and kind man called Adolf and then proceeded to tell me he was a dictator who routinely handed out punishment to those that didn't support him, I wouldn't see a contradiction. How come you cannot see that with my god?

(October 2, 2013 at 12:15 am)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: But let's say the neighbor was very jealous, played favoritism to extremes, taught people how to acquire free labor, supported the idea of raping teenage women after stealing them from households where everyone was killed, punished women for having their periods, loved the burning of animals as well as people, constantly changed his opinion and tortured people for not saying that he was a great guy. That would be closer to your god.

Not to mention that as a judge he hands down the harshest punishment possible (say, the death penalty perhaps) to everyone (even if they haven't done anything wrong) unless they profess allegiance to him, in which instances he throws out the case and allows them to go free, then invites them to a party at his house later that evening.

(October 2, 2013 at 3:55 am)Esquilax Wrote: You always do this, you keep setting up comparisons that are invalid.

So do you guys. The biggest oversight of this comparison is that god isn't another human being. He's a much greater being who created us.

Quote:Judges are appointed, god just assumes the right to govern us without our consent.

He gave us everything we have, including our very lives. He doesn't need our consent to govern us.

Quote:That's tyranny, and we're under no obligation to find the cruel whims of a tyrant to be "punishment," because there's no guarantee that they're just. I'd submit to you that the whims of your god are not just, and thus do not fit in with any real criteria of punishment, because being born is not a wrongdoing.

Correct - it's a gift that you should be thankful for.

Quote:The real comparison would go like this: if you told me your neighbor

Wrong. God isn't our neighbor, he's our creator. Try again.

(October 2, 2013 at 3:13 pm)John V Wrote: So do you guys. The biggest oversight of this comparison is that god isn't another human being. He's a much greater being who created us.

You mean, he's a much lesser being which can't even understand that slavery is wrong and can't even control his own jealousy and anger.

(October 2, 2013 at 3:13 pm)John V Wrote: So do you guys. The biggest oversight of this comparison is that god isn't another human being. He's a much greater being who created us.

Here's the thing: I don't care what the bible or you christians say about god. He'll be judged by his actions, not the demands that we bow and scrape and hold him to a different standard.

And his actions are those of a murderous thug, assuming he even exists.

Quote:He gave us everything we have, including our very lives. He doesn't need our consent to govern us.

Actually no, god didn't give me my life. My parents did. Unless you want to lose the free will argument forever, that is.

See, it works like this: god created exactly two human beings, in Adam and Eve. According to your apologetics about free will, Adam and Eve conceived all their children on their own bat, and since this was a conscious choice that they made- like all the evil acts that you want to pin on humans and not god- then god carries no responsibility or credit for an act of conception or childbirth. It's the only way you can retain all your free will apologetics; if god doesn't directly control human actions, then he's in no way responsible for the lives of those created out of those freely chosen actions.

The other option is to lay down free will and say that god forced every human sexual act that led to conception, disregarding the free will of the people involved... he'd be responsible for our creation then. But something tells me you don't want to turn your god into a pervert playing with his billions of sex dolls, now do you?

Quote:Correct - it's a gift that you should be thankful for.

But not god's gift.

Quote:Wrong. God isn't our neighbor, he's our creator. Try again.

You were using exactly the same fucking hypothetical in the post I responded, but now that I'm doing it in a way you dislike, you've suddenly gotten very literal. What's the matter, can't think of a cogent rebuttal?

I'm not surprised.

(October 2, 2013 at 4:18 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Here's the thing: I don't care what the bible or you christians say about god. He'll be judged by his actions, not the demands that we bow and scrape and hold him to a different standard.

Good luck with that!

Quote:Actually no, god didn't give me my life. My parents did.

They didn't create the genome they passed to you. There's a reason we say parents PROcreate or REproduce life, rather than create or produce it.

Quote:Unless you want to lose the free will argument forever, that is.

Whatever. Doesn't particularly bother me.

Quote:But not god's gift.

Again, procreate and reproduce.

Quote:You were using exactly the same fucking hypothetical in the post I responded, but now that I'm doing it in a way you dislike, you've suddenly gotten very literal. What's the matter, can't think of a cogent rebuttal?

You started it, but don't like it having turned around on you.