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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 11, 2013 at 12:20 pm
(This post was last modified: October 11, 2013 at 12:23 pm by Angrboda.)
(October 11, 2013 at 6:19 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: (October 11, 2013 at 5:00 am)daandaan Wrote: so everything that is complex must have a creator??
that means god, a creator himself...is even more complex as his creations and therefore shurely must have a creator himself by ur logic ..
so who r gods mommy and daddy ??
I do not thing it means God is more complex.
The Bible says "God is a spirit"
It does mean God is more powerful than His creation.
If God is less complex than His creation, then it proves that complex things can come from less complex things. Applied successively, this results in simple things giving rise to complex things. Do you argue that simple things cannot arise except through intelligent design? If not, then you've conceded the point by arguing that a complex universe can arise from a simpler god. If God isn't simpler than the universe, then you have to explain the origin of a God who is as complex as the universe, and who, according to your argument, necessarily requires an intelligent designer to explain his existence. If you claim that not all complex things necessarily require an intelligent designer, you again have conceded the argument.
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 11, 2013 at 12:39 pm
(October 11, 2013 at 12:20 pm)apophenia Wrote: (October 11, 2013 at 6:19 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: I do not thing it means God is more complex.
The Bible says "God is a spirit"
It does mean God is more powerful than His creation.
If God is less complex than His creation, then it proves that complex things can come from less complex things. Applied successively, this results in simple things giving rise to complex things. Do you argue that simple things cannot arise except through intelligent design? If not, then you've conceded the point by arguing that a complex universe can arise from a simpler god. If God isn't simpler than the universe, then you have to explain the origin of a God who is as complex as the universe, and who, according to your argument, necessarily requires an intelligent designer to explain his existence. If you claim that not all complex things necessarily require an intelligent designer, you again have conceded the argument.
Complex things can come from God.
You missed that point.
Please explain where all that complexity came from.
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 11, 2013 at 12:42 pm
(This post was last modified: October 11, 2013 at 12:52 pm by Zazzy.)
(October 11, 2013 at 12:20 pm)apophenia Wrote: If God is less complex than His creation, then it proves that complex things can come from less complex things. Applied successively, this results in simple things giving rise to complex things. Do you argue that simple things cannot arise except through intelligent design? If not, then you've conceded the point by arguing that a complex universe can arise from a simpler god. If God isn't simpler than the universe, then you have to explain the origin of a God who is as complex as the universe, and who, according to your argument, necessarily requires an intelligent designer to explain his existence. If you claim that not all complex things necessarily require an intelligent designer, you again have conceded the argument. Oh, Apophenia, you silly *edit* person. it's turtles ALL the way down!
edit: Apologies, Apophenia. Maybe one day I'll learn.
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 11, 2013 at 12:45 pm
(October 11, 2013 at 12:42 pm)Zazzy Wrote: (October 11, 2013 at 12:20 pm)apophenia Wrote: If God is less complex than His creation, then it proves that complex things can come from less complex things. Applied successively, this results in simple things giving rise to complex things. Do you argue that simple things cannot arise except through intelligent design? If not, then you've conceded the point by arguing that a complex universe can arise from a simpler god. If God isn't simpler than the universe, then you have to explain the origin of a God who is as complex as the universe, and who, according to your argument, necessarily requires an intelligent designer to explain his existence. If you claim that not all complex things necessarily require an intelligent designer, you again have conceded the argument. Oh, Apophenia, you silly atheist. it's turtles ALL the way down!
Apophenia isn't an atheist. 
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 11, 2013 at 12:53 pm
(October 11, 2013 at 12:39 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: (October 11, 2013 at 12:20 pm)apophenia Wrote: If God is less complex than His creation, then it proves that complex things can come from less complex things. Applied successively, this results in simple things giving rise to complex things. Do you argue that simple things cannot arise except through intelligent design? If not, then you've conceded the point by arguing that a complex universe can arise from a simpler god. If God isn't simpler than the universe, then you have to explain the origin of a God who is as complex as the universe, and who, according to your argument, necessarily requires an intelligent designer to explain his existence. If you claim that not all complex things necessarily require an intelligent designer, you again have conceded the argument.
Complex things can come from God.
You missed that point.
Please explain where all that complexity came from.
No, you utterly missed her point. Try rereading what she said.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 11, 2013 at 12:57 pm
(October 11, 2013 at 12:53 pm)Chas Wrote: (October 11, 2013 at 12:39 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Complex things can come from God.
You missed that point.
Please explain where all that complexity came from.
No, you utterly missed her point. Try rereading what she said.
You keep claiming I miss a point when I do not agree with someone. That is a little too much. In fact, I can say you missed all my points and therefore you did not really read or take enough time to read.
I looked at the post in question. She substituted mindless nothing for God Almighty Creator. That is misguided logic.
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 11, 2013 at 1:11 pm
(October 11, 2013 at 12:57 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: I looked at the post in question. She substituted mindless nothing for God Almighty Creator. That is misguided logic.
No, she didn't. Try reading it again.
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 11, 2013 at 1:14 pm
"You Keep claiming I miss a point when I do not agree with someone. "
2 options:
1. Its a grand conspiracy against you.
2. You are missing the point.
Choose.
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 11, 2013 at 1:16 pm
(October 11, 2013 at 12:53 pm)Chas Wrote: No, you utterly missed her point.
Color me fucking surprised.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: The vast complexity of living things proves that God exists (proof 1)
October 11, 2013 at 1:24 pm
(October 11, 2013 at 12:57 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: You keep claiming I miss a point when I do not agree with someone.
I must disagree with Chas. You didn't miss the point. You simply avoided addressing it at all.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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