I was born an atheist.

(October 9, 2013 at 5:17 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: I was born an atheist.

You born without any metaphysical belief but you were also born without any toilet training.

(October 11, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: You born without any metaphysical belief but you were also born without any toilet training.

If your god was self-evident, belief in him would be as ubiquitous as toilet training.

(October 11, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(October 9, 2013 at 5:17 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: I was born an atheist.

You born without any metaphysical belief but you were also born without any toilet training.

There is a clear need for toilet training, I see no need for gods

(October 11, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: You born without any metaphysical belief but you were also born without any toilet training.

You know, I was going to give you credit, because that's actually a fairly good line, if nothing else... but then I realized that in this comparison, the analogue of god is poop, and the analogue of metaphysical belief is the act of depositing that poop in a toilet, to be washed far away, like the refuse it is.

In that sense, I agree with you.

(October 11, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(October 9, 2013 at 5:17 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: I was born an atheist.

You born without any metaphysical belief but you were also born without any toilet training.

I was born without any beliefs at all, a blank slate if you will, only instinct derived from millions of years of evolution.

I have never once acquired any sort of concept or belief in a deity.

As others have said, toilet training serves a purpose. I've been just as productive as a member of society without a concept of a deity as those that have. Funny that.

(October 4, 2013 at 7:23 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: David Bentley Hart's criticism of atheism is as follows:

Quote:The principal source of my melancholy, however, is my firm conviction that today’s most obstreperous infidels lack the courage, moral intelligence, and thoughtfulness of their forefathers in faithlessness. What I find chiefly offensive about them is not that they are skeptics or atheists; rather, it is that they are not skeptics at all and have purchased their atheism cheaply, with the sort of boorish arrogance that might make a man believe himself a great strategist because his tanks overwhelmed a town of unarmed peasants, or a great lover because he can afford the price of admission to a brothel. So long as one can choose one’s conquests in advance, taking always the paths of least resistance, one can always imagine oneself a Napoleon or a Casanova (and even better: the one without a Waterloo, the other without the clap).

I have to agree insofar as the "new" atheism rejecting the intellectually rigorous atheism of the old. Modern atheists can't hold a candle to Mackie, Ayer, Flew or Russell. From redefining atheism from the realm of the intellectual rigor into the realm of personal psychology, to forgoing analytical thinking in favor of pusillanimous rhetoric, to rejecting dispassionate examination for emotive expressions.

Atheism has lost the weight of intelligence it used to carry. It has become cheap.

While I do hold a more agnostic view than atheist, I think that these types of thread topics are ironic in the sense that if one is an atheist, guess what? He or she doesn't subscribe to ANYONE'S view. That's why we are tired of religion to begin with, because I don't need someone else telling me how I should think about god, or anything really. There is no 'new atheism,' only something theists tell themselves so they can come up with a variety of arguments against atheists. It's simply a figment of a theists' imagination, just like the god they worship.

Live in reality Vinny, and you will see that atheists actually don't care what theists have to say. They are just tired of being told what to think and told they are wrong for not thinking as you do.

Atheists nor agnostics need to prove anything to you or anyone, as to why they don't believe in what you do. That is why religion is so offensive to many of us, because it presumes to be superior to those who do not follow the same line of thinking. So, there is no 'purchasing' of atheism at all. Not a cheap or expensive 'version.' This is something you tell yourself in order to feel that the nonsense YOU have bought, means something to you.

Some people just want to live their lives, free to be who they truly are, and free to help others as we all should be doing. Religion often pits people against one another, thus your threads all seem to have that type of tone. No offense, you may be a very nice person, but whether you accept it or not, your threads are designed to make atheists and agnostics, and anyone else who is not religious as you are, to look foolish for not 'coming into the light,' as you have.

In so many words, it is degrading. Sounds to me, YOU should be getting your money back. Unless the religion you follow does promote judgment of others. Then, you have gotten your money's worth!

I agree with you, Deidre. If atheists are coming by their atheism more cheaply it is because theism no longer makes much of a claim on us. Many of us don't find it difficult to avoid or ignore. It has become a non-issue. Hence we need make no great effort to explain or rationalize a rejection of religion. More and more, it goes without saying.

(October 13, 2013 at 2:29 pm)whateverist Wrote: I agree with you, Deidre. If atheists are coming by their atheism more cheaply it is because theism no longer makes much of a claim on us. Many of us don't find it difficult to avoid or ignore. It has become a non-issue. Hence we need make no great effort to explain or rationalize a rejection of religion. More and more, it goes without saying.

So agree!

Atheists and agnostics, we are living life. Religious people are busy trying to tell others how to live their lives but they should get busy living theirs. I don't think it is always with malice, but religion causes those who follow it to do some pretty strange things in the name of it. lol

(October 12, 2013 at 3:30 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:

(October 4, 2013 at 7:23 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: David Bentley Hart's criticism of atheism is as follows:


I have to agree insofar as the "new" atheism rejecting the intellectually rigorous atheism of the old. Modern atheists can't hold a candle to Mackie, Ayer, Flew or Russell. From redefining atheism from the realm of the intellectual rigor into the realm of personal psychology, to forgoing analytical thinking in favor of pusillanimous rhetoric, to rejecting dispassionate examination for emotive expressions.

Atheism has lost the weight of intelligence it used to carry. It has become cheap.

While I do hold a more agnostic view than atheist, I think that these types of thread topics are ironic in the sense that if one is an atheist, guess what? He or she doesn't subscribe to ANYONE'S view. That's why we are tired of religion to begin with, because I don't need someone else telling me how I should think about god, or anything really. There is no 'new atheism,' only something theists tell themselves so they can come up with a variety of arguments against atheists. It's simply a figment of a theists' imagination, just like the god they worship.

Live in reality Vinny, and you will see that atheists actually don't care what theists have to say. They are just tired of being told what to think and told they are wrong for not thinking as you do.

Atheists nor agnostics need to prove anything to you or anyone, as to why they don't believe in what you do. That is why religion is so offensive to many of us, because it presumes to be superior to those who do not follow the same line of thinking. So, there is no 'purchasing' of atheism at all. Not a cheap or expensive 'version.' This is something you tell yourself in order to feel that the nonsense YOU have bought, means something to you.

Some people just want to live their lives, free to be who they truly are, and free to help others as we all should be doing. Religion often pits people against one another, thus your threads all seem to have that type of tone. No offense, you may be a very nice person, but whether you accept it or not, your threads are designed to make atheists and agnostics, and anyone else who is not religious as you are, to look foolish for not 'coming into the light,' as you have.

In so many words, it is degrading. Sounds to me, YOU should be getting your money back. Unless the religion you follow does promote judgment of others. Then, you have gotten your money's worth!

If you fail at the first step of the argument, and all your other steps depend on the first step, don't all your steps fail?

That's my thinking as I read your post. You fail at the first step when you claim "[An atheist] doesn't subscribe to ANYONE's view."

Really? Not even his own view?

Can you tell that someone who doesn't subscribe to any view thus doesn't even subscribe to his own?

Rigorous thinking, Deidre32. This forum needs more of it.