...for an Atheist that is?

I see the mods have been busy!! Well.... I've been busy myself! Converting Atheists, and godless peeps in general is hard work! Plus... I figured you'd all want to wish me a Happy Anniversary!! Especially those who said I'd be run outta Dodge within a month! Really though... no cudos necessary! I know you all love me!

Back to the subject at hand! Given the natural cynicism and nastiness of Atheists [here] in general... is there any reason to live a "Moral" life?

"Moral", in terms of [Good, Honest] deemed by traditions through time. Maybe to include a few slightly general commandments: Lies, stealing, adultery, etc.

I mean... if there is no one or nothing to [say you are wrong, but you] about; a little swing w/ your buddies wife, or that $10 the acne faced kid gave you extra w/ your change at the Walmart; or telling your wife you were out w/ your buddy instead of his wife... How do you keep it in check? Or do you?

Yeah, yeah....I know you would say that Christians are doing the same thing....And they are! But, they do have a conviction in the Lord Jesus. and they know that they will answer to their words and deeds.

What do you have to answer to? Is there a point to living any kind of "honest" life?

As an observation as a Christian... Your words are pretty mean spirited to any religious. And I've witnessed a lot of hate here. Maybe you feel you have that right? But also people are individuals, and deserve at least to be heard for their ideas, and concepts relating to just about anything.... religious or otherwise.

Anyway... what do you as an atheists feel is your moral compass. And what is the gauge set at? Honesty in general... where is the line drawn, and how?

I hope you take this thread seriously! Thanks for your answers. As a Christian I have a guide/threat (if you will) in my life. I'm just curious how a person acts w/o what many here would call an "obstacle"?

Again! Good to be back celebrating ONE YEAR w/ all my A-team buddies!

Today I saw an elderly man who was parked in a handicapped parking spot struggling to put his groceries into his trunk. I asked him if I could help him - he said "Yes", so I helped him. Just another day in life with other human beings. NEXT!

(October 16, 2013 at 8:27 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: Today I saw an elderly man who was parked in a handicapped parking spot struggling to put his groceries into his trunk. I asked him if I could help him - he said "Yes", so I helped him. Just another day in life with other human beings. NEXT!

Thanks......... NEXT!

I hope you at some point come to the startling realization that your persecution complex is just that: a complex. This hatred you perceive coming your way is in fact targeted at your insane beliefs, and not you as a person (though I don't speak for everyone, I'm sure most can agree with this sentiment). Just think: if one of us atheists didn't strive to lead a moral life the way we felt was right, where would that leave us in the eyes of society? In some cases, immorality or wrongful actions could land a man/woman in jail. For others life might just end up devoid of love and happiness, and I for one would loathe to be in such a situation.

Why should you lead a moral life? Because you fear jail? Being Raped in prison? Those are my reasons.

We're pack animals. We need others to survive, and not just to protect us from other packs. Morals are different from society to society, but we all have rules of conduct for living in the pack. Is there a point? Yes. To be able to live with the pack.

That said, I do think there's more to it. My moral code can be summed up this way:
1.) In the very likely event that this life is all we have, I should do my best to live it as fully and well as I can.
2.) It follows that everyone else also likely has only one shot at living, so I should try my best not to screw up anyone else's chance.
3.) If I particularly like my pack, and being a valued member of it, I should do my best to help out less fortunate members of my pack, for the good of the whole pack, and because what comes around goes around in small communities.

Clearly not everyone shares this code, but it has worked very well for me. There are some pretty horrifying moral codes out there, and it's clear that humans can't agree on anything. Murder? Nope. Child Rape? Nope. Cannibalism? Nope. Incest? Nope.

So there is a point- to be a member of the pack, and we are, depending on where we live, to varying degrees capable of dissenting from the moral code of our tribes. We can choose to do more or less than our pack demands from us, and we have personal reasons for those choices. Other great apes have societal rules. Extinct hominids took care of the sick and elderly. Our technology allows us to to better for the good of our packs. However, few of us give a shit for other tribes and their customs. Why? Because we weren't born to that pack.

(October 16, 2013 at 8:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: ...for an Atheist that is?

I see the mods have been busy!! Well.... I've been busy myself! Converting Atheists, and godless peeps in general is hard work! Plus... I figured you'd all want to wish me a Happy Anniversary!! Especially those who said I'd be run outta Dodge within a month! Really though... no cudos necessary! I know you all love me!

Back to the subject at hand! Given the natural cynicism and nastiness of Atheists [here] in general... is there any reason to live a "Moral" life?

"Moral", in terms of [Good, Honest] deemed by traditions through time. Maybe to include a few slightly general commandments: Lies, stealing, adultery, etc.

I mean... if there is no one or nothing to [say you are wrong, but you] about; a little swing w/ your buddies wife, or that $10 the acne faced kid gave you extra w/ your change at the Walmart; or telling your wife you were out w/ your buddy instead of his wife... How do you keep it in check? Or do you?

Yeah, yeah....I know you would say that Christians are doing the same thing....And they are! But, they do have a conviction in the Lord Jesus. and they know that they will answer to their words and deeds.

What do you have to answer to? Is there a point to living any kind of "honest" life?

As an observation as a Christian... Your words are pretty mean spirited to any religious. And I've witnessed a lot of hate here. Maybe you feel you have that right? But also people are individuals, and deserve at least to be heard for their ideas, and concepts relating to just about anything.... religious or otherwise.

Anyway... what do you as an atheists feel is your moral compass. And what is the gauge set at? Honesty in general... where is the line drawn, and how?

I hope you take this thread seriously! Thanks for your answers. As a Christian I have a guide/threat (if you will) in my life. I'm just curious how a person acts w/o what many here would call an "obstacle"?

Again! Good to be back celebrating ONE YEAR w/ all my A-team buddies!

Ultimately as Shakespeare's line rightfully said "Life is a flurry of activity, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

Now there are two ways ANYONE of any label can look at life. The pragmatic approach to not harming others physically is can be simply that if you do they will react to you and harm you back. The empathy side of our species is we also have the ability to understand pain from a psychological standpoint.

Not having a god does not mean we cannot reason as to why we should not do physical harm to others. That "NO DUH" aspect of our evolutionary morality is not the invention of a religion.

Quote:Your words are pretty mean spirited to any religious. And I've witnessed a lot of hate here

Hate in what context? Atheists don't live in a bubble, all of us here have family and friends and co-workers who believe to some degree.

The "hate" you see here is about what humans claim and the violence and bigotry done in the name of religion. That is why we don't give religion a pass. We can like and love people who believe and we do, but we don't have to like everything a person might claim or do.

I don't for example hate Malala, the girl shot in the face by the Taliban for merely wanting an education, she is a Muslim. I think she is badass for standing up to those ignorant bullies. But I do hate that her same religion produced the nuts that shot her. And I do hate the fact she feels the need to have a god at all. But she as an individual, outside her religious claims which I do hate, DOES represent a very inspiring story of ALL human struggle.

I used to be Catholic myself. I didn't hate all of the experiences then. But I do hate the fact that I used to buy into it, and do feel duped out of the ability to question it before I could make an adult decision about it. It was sold to me while my brain was a sponge.

I still love my Catholic mother. She is my biggest supporter, but she knows quite well I hate the claim of magic crackers saving a "soul". I do hate that all Christians, not just Catholics buy a 2,000 year old myth about babies being born virgins. It was understandable back then, but we know what DNA is now and we know it takes two sets to manifest into a baby.

I do hate people claiming that humans can survive death after having all their blood drain out of their body, die and get no medical aid, and ignore in reality that depending on environment temperature rigor mortis will set in after a period of time. No one comes back after your organs die and stay dead and decay and stiffen.

But I also hate that people care more about their "all powerful God" would or should care about being called names. It would seem a messed up priority considering all the death and disease and crime and famine and war going on worldwide. It makes this character look selfish. Look at how Muslim zealots behave when you pick on their Allah. If you are not willing to go to their extent, and I am sure you don't, then maybe you shouldn't even focus on us picking on your god, and actually worry about providing evidence for such, and if you cant, have the moral courage to admit you got it wrong.

Believers often say "love the sinner not the sin". I say the secular atheist version could be "Love the claimant not the claim".

We do hate, sure, but not for the reasons you think.

(October 16, 2013 at 8:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: ...for an Atheist that is?

Good question! I know how Dostoevsky would have answered.

(October 16, 2013 at 8:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: ... I figured you'd all want to wish me a Happy Anniversary!!

I remember when you joined. I thought it great to have a representative from the Whore of Babylon here (wink, wink).

(October 16, 2013 at 8:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: Given the natural cynicism and nastiness of Atheists [here] in general... is there any reason to live a "Moral" life?

Evolution! Its all evolution! Hip Hip Hurray! Random chance has given us reason, values and brotherly love.

(October 16, 2013 at 8:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: Yeah, yeah....I know you would say that Christians are doing the same thing....And they are!

Those vile hypocrites. How dare they HAVE beliefs to violate. At least if you don't have any values you cannot violate them.

(October 16, 2013 at 8:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: As an observation as a Christian... Your words are pretty mean spirited to any religious. And I've witnessed a lot of hate here.

Atheists don't hate believers. They just think they are stupid bigots. Don't take it personally. (And they all know a gay couple that's so much nicer than any church-goers.)

(October 16, 2013 at 8:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: Honesty in general... where is the line drawn, and how?

I TOLD you! Evolution, man.

(October 16, 2013 at 8:23 pm)ronedee Wrote: I hope you take this thread seriously!

You've been here and still haven't learned that anything a believer says is just a big joke to most of them?

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(October 16, 2013 at 8:51 pm)Zazzy Wrote: We're pack animals. We need others to survive, and not just to protect us from other packs. Morals are different from society to society, but we all have rules of conduct for living in the pack. Is there a point? Yes. To be able to live with the pack.

And they call us "sheeple".

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(October 16, 2013 at 8:57 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I do hate people claiming that humans can survive death ...

That's a lot of people and a stupid reason for hating them.

The above post by Chad is a clear-cut example of sarcasm falling flat.

(October 16, 2013 at 8:57 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(October 16, 2013 at 8:51 pm)Zazzy Wrote: We're pack animals. We need others to survive, and not just to protect us from other packs. Morals are different from society to society, but we all have rules of conduct for living in the pack. Is there a point? Yes. To be able to live with the pack.

And they call us "sheeple".

There isn't a shred of doubt that we are pack animals. If someone called your folks "sheeple," that really doesn't have anything to do with settled fact.