(October 17, 2013 at 3:17 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(October 17, 2013 at 2:24 pm)Faith No More Wrote: What if the darkness was metaphorical and the fire was literal? Whatever floats your boat, right?

Fire and darkness together at the same time would have to be metaphorical like I said.

You can't really be this stupid.

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(October 17, 2013 at 3:30 pm)apophenia Wrote: Did he also make the laws of logic "according to his will" ?

Careful. You might overload the one remaining brain cell SoC has left.

(October 17, 2013 at 3:24 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(October 17, 2013 at 3:00 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote: I love it when they break out 'heathen'.

I use it as a term of endearment for people like yourself. A group of atheists together will be a heathen horde, a small group is a heathen band.

Quote:As for your problem with the 'outer darkness' and the fire producing light. Dark fire shouldn't be a problem for your magic man that bends the very cosmos to his will should it?

The laws of physics were bent to his will to begin with, he made them. Who do you think made them? Or did they make themselves?

who made the laws of physics for god to enable him to make laws of physics for his creations?? or did he make them himself?

(October 17, 2013 at 3:34 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote: Makes me feel special SoC.

You reverted back to the idolatry of the created order of things though it's not carved images in wood and stone you have reverence for it's human reason and science. These things are very good and have been to our benefit but they are tools of understanding given to us by God not as the ends to themselves. Once you say "Now that we have science we don't need God" it gets a bit serious hock:

Quote:Are you really about to initiate the 'God made everything' circle jerk?

God is the creator of all that is yes. If he isn't the creator of all that is he is not God.

Quote:Give me evidence, give me real hard empirical evidence that your magic man created the laws of physics or I will continue to attribute them to rational explanations that science has provided for generations.

Pfffffft erm... ok?





You can't prove the existence of God when you can only study what he created though.

Quote:And for the love of humanity if you quote your damn book to me I'm going to lose it.

You can have that as well if you like.

The laws of physics were bent to his will to begin with, he made them. Who do you think made them? Or did they make themselves?

who made the laws of physics for god to enable him to make laws of physics for his creations?? or did he make them himself?

Dude the fine tuned argument is fucking bullshit.

There is only one ONE planet in our solar system that has humans. And even then we've only been around a fraction of the entirety of evolution and the planet itself. Most of the universe is EMPTY and cannot support life. 99% of all living species in biological history are EXTINCT, what is still alive is 1%.

Black holes are very distructive. Pulses from collapsing stars can fry a planet in a second. Our planet's core will run out of energy and die. Our sun will also expand and die or collapse and die.

It takes 1 ray of light at the speed of light 100,000 years to cross our own galaxy. It took Voyager nearly 40 years just to get out of our solar system.

If you think this universe is all pretty, go take a shuttle up into space, take a space walk and take your helmet off and see what happens. "All this" is not here for us dipshit, we are merely riding in it.

The universe does not need your god or any god to explain.

(October 17, 2013 at 4:16 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Dude the fine tuned argument is fucking bullshit.

Fact is, Sword knows this, because it ain't the first time it's been explained to him. He just prefers to cloak reality in pretty language and then pretend that polysyllables somehow count as evidence.

(October 17, 2013 at 4:02 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: You reverted back to the idolatry of the created order of things though it's not carved images in wood and stone you have reverence for it's human reason and science. These things are very good and have been to our benefit but they are tools of understanding given to us by God not as the ends to themselves. Once you say "Now that we have science we don't need God" it gets a bit serious hock:

Once again you're reverting to telling people your beliefs and working from a position that this is how things are.
There were plenty of non believers before the advent of modern science, granted they weren't very outspoken because death and torture are fantastic ways of controlling the 'heathens'. Don't blame me for using the tools at my disposal to disprove your god, that's like trying to shame a man for disproving magical faeries.

Quote:God is the creator of all that is yes. If he isn't the creator of all that is he is not God.

Where did your god come from? Did he create himself? Are there an infinite line of gods creating other gods who in turn create more?

Quote:Pfffffft erm... ok?





You can't prove the existence of God when you can only study what he created though.

You, and all other theists that use this argument are off your damned rockers.

How can you bloody well shrug your shoulders at years upon years of scientific study and achievement and say that god gave it to us and we can't possibly prove or disprove his existence with it? How damned convenient.

You can't take the creation of the universe and simply attribute it to some imaginary figure, what a giant pile of lazy shit that is.

"Oh things are just far too complex to simply be there. It must have been Zeus!'

You shake your faith at such a magnitude of evidence to the contrary that it's fucking laughable, and when it suits you theists you attempt to conform the theories of science to your god saying you never said they couldn't work in unison. Anything to sell your product right?

(October 10, 2013 at 10:41 am)John V Wrote: The typical answer to get around the fact that the singularity-big bang model violates the laws of nature is that the laws of nature only came into being a fraction of a second after the big bang.

I'd of thought 'fallacy of composition' (a wall being made of unbreakable bricks wouldn't mean the wall is unbreakable) would sufficiently cover why it doesn't make sense to assume that the laws OF the universe apply TO the universe. However, the fact that the current laws of nature are not the same as they were a fraction of a second before the Big Bang is a good additional point.

truethat;9562002 Wrote:Of course, that makes the singularity-big bang a supernatural explanation for the universe.

If it entertains you to think so, carry on, but it just means that what natural laws are in play depends upon the state of the universe.

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(October 17, 2013 at 3:24 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: I use it as a term of endearment for people like yourself. A group of atheists together will be a heathen horde, a small group is a heathen band.

I don't mind being called a heathen, but the mileage of others may vary.

(October 17, 2013 at 4:07 pm)daandaan Wrote: who made the laws of physics for god to enable him to make laws of physics for his creations?? or did he make them himself?

God was never made or created nor does he exist in any physical form as any kind of process within time and space. What he does is created time, space, matter/energy, physical existence and all being. Without God nothing would exist as he is the reason for existence. Without God there is no reason, cause or anything to get the ball rolling to begin with.

*cough* special pleading *cough*