In the philosophy forum, in a thread called Evidence for God, there is a debate about God, where essentially atheists are challenged on God's existence.

Here in the Atheism Forum, I will be posting a series of Strong Atheism arguments devoted to demonstrating that the omni-everything Gods of Christianity, Judaism, Islam and similar religions are logically impossible. These religions, supposedly based on revelations from God state God created all, is perfectly good, totally good, omnipotent, and omniscient.

I will attempt to demonstrate these claims lead to a God that is self contradictory and impossible when considering these claimed attributes and the nature of God supposedly revealed to us or inspired by God.

Strong atheism is the concept of logically demonstrating God logically is impossible.
Not merely that God is not proven.

This first series of disproofs will concentrate on the common garden variety omni-everything creator God, the OEC Gods. Later I will examine other species of Gods.

Arguments I will present will be, Omnigenesis, the problem of a creator God who is omniscient. Free will and the problem of evil.
Omnigenesis and time. Time is a severe problem for a possible God.
Super-omnipotence. Can God make 2 + 2 = 5?
The soap bubble God. Simplicity of God and aseity of God.

Christians and others say we can not disprove God. Yes we can, and its almost trivial to do so. It is merely a matter of taking their revealed claims about God's attributes and running them out to their logical conclusions.



Cheerful Charlie

(October 19, 2013 at 11:21 pm)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: In the philosophy forum, in a thread called Evidence for God, there is a debate about God, where essentially atheists are challenged on God's existence.

Here in the Atheism Forum, I will be posting a series of Strong Atheism arguments devoted to demonstrating that the omni-everything Gods of Christianity, Judaism, Islam and similar religions are logically impossible. These religions, supposedly based on revelations from God state God created all, is perfectly good, totally good, omnipotent, and omniscient.

I will attempt to demonstrate these claims lead to a God that is self contradictory and impossible when considering these claimed attributes and the nature of God supposedly revealed to us or inspired by God.

Strong atheism is the concept of logically demonstrating God logically is impossible.
Not merely that God is not proven.

This first series of disproofs will concentrate on the common garden variety omni-everything creator God, the OEC Gods. Later I will examine other species of Gods.

Arguments I will present will be, Omnigenesis, the problem of a creator God who is omniscient. Free will and the problem of evil.
Omnigenesis and time. Time is a severe problem for a possible God.
Super-omnipotence. Can God make 2 + 2 = 5?
The soap bubble God. Simplicity of God and aseity of God.

Christians and others say we can not disprove God. Yes we can, and its almost trivial to do so. It is merely a matter of taking their revealed claims about God's attributes and running them out to their logical conclusions.



Cheerful Charlie

How can you not say that free will (not the narrow Ancient Greek view) or at least a perceived notion of free will (who is to really say whether they have free will nor not?) per this definition, "voluntary choice or decision," is ultimately incompatible with pre-determinism?

Is fate really that solid? Life is not just a story in a book and even if the ending is known in the story of life, the in-between is still up to the individual on how they want to live their life.

(October 19, 2013 at 11:45 pm)Polaris Wrote:

(October 19, 2013 at 11:21 pm)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: In the philosophy forum, in a thread called Evidence for God, there is a debate about God, where essentially atheists are challenged on God's existence.


Arguments I will present will be, Omnigenesis, the problem of a creator God who is omniscient. Free will and the problem of evil.
Omnigenesis and time. Time is a severe problem for a possible God.
Super-omnipotence. Can God make 2 + 2 = 5?
The soap bubble God. Simplicity of God and aseity of God.

Christians and others say we can not disprove God. Yes we can, and its almost trivial to do so. It is merely a matter of taking their revealed claims about God's attributes and running them out to their logical conclusions.



Cheerful Charlie

How can you not say that free will (not the narrow Ancient Greek view) or at least a perceived notion of free will (who is to really say whether they have free will nor not?) per this definition, "voluntary choice or decision," is ultimately incompatible with pre-determinism?

Is fate really that solid? Life is not just a story in a book and even if the ending is known in the story of live, the in-between is still up to the individual on how they want to live their life.

The short bumpersticker answer is, if god creates all and is omniscient, knowing the future in full detail from any initial state of creation god chooses, all will unfold in a manner God will know in full detail. God's omniscience which is pretty much standard issue dogma causes strict determinism to obtain. Free will is impossible for sentient beings in such a Universe.

"Free will is impossible"
-- Martin Luther - 'Bondage of the Will"

Luther and Calvin and others adopted this from Augustine who tried for 30 years to square free will and the Bible and finally admitted it was impossible. Their versions were based on biblical dogma, mine is based more on logical deduction.

Cheerful Charlie

(October 20, 2013 at 12:51 am)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:

(October 19, 2013 at 11:45 pm)Polaris Wrote: How can you not say that free will (not the narrow Ancient Greek view) or at least a perceived notion of free will (who is to really say whether they have free will nor not?) per this definition, "voluntary choice or decision," is ultimately incompatible with pre-determinism?

Is fate really that solid? Life is not just a story in a book and even if the ending is known in the story of live, the in-between is still up to the individual on how they want to live their life.

The short bumpersticker answer is, if god creates all and is omniscient, knowing the future in full detail from any initial state of creation god chooses, all will unfold in a manner God will know in full detail. God's omniscience which is pretty much standard issue dogma causes strict determinism to obtain. Free will is impossible for sentient beings in such a Universe.

"Free will is impossible"
-- Martin Luther - 'Bondage of the Will"

Luther and Calvin and others adopted this from Augustine who tried for 30 years to square free will and the Bible and finally admitted it was impossible. Their versions were based on biblical dogma, mine is based more on logical deduction.

Cheerful Charlie

What if God knew, but just did not care? Does omniscience really mean He would know how every thread in a story ended or just bits and pieces of the story like someone who skimmed through to the end of a long book? Who is to say omniscience cannot be limited to only being all-knowing in the present reality without a complete foresight?

Even if there is true omniscience or that God has such potential to know everything there is to know, there are the believers who see God as having inherent omniscience (as opposed to a complete, all-surpassing omniscience) where God would have the ability to be all-knowing, yet purposefully limit Himself so that humans can have a version of free will.