(October 23, 2013 at 2:05 pm)John V Wrote:

(October 23, 2013 at 1:53 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: There is no god to give thanks to, nor is there one to prescribe adherence toward. I'm saying that this 'moral' stuff is INSIDE me, and I don't give credit to your imaginary friend for my decency and humanity.

But then neither can you blame anyone for your former behavior. It was just you.

Oh sure I could, I could do what christians do when they get caught being jerks; I can blame it on the devil.
TA DA! There you have it folks - and if no devil exists to blame 'sin' on, then no god exists either. See John, it's simple. No one to blame for the evil I do but me; likewise no one to blame when I am 'moral' but myself as well. Human morals 101 - god not included/no god required.

(October 23, 2013 at 2:12 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: Oh sure I could, I could do what christians do when they get caught being jerks; I can blame it on the devil.
TA DA! There you have it folks - and if no devil exists to blame 'sin' on, then no god exists either. See John, it's simple. No one to blame for the evil I do but me; likewise no one to blame when I am 'moral' but myself as well. Human morals 101 - god not included/no god required.

So after pretending to disagree, you agree with me.

Your story seems to be: I was a jerk for years, now I've been decent for three months.

I'm happy for your wife et. al., but it's not a very inspiring tale.

(October 23, 2013 at 2:19 pm)John V Wrote:

(October 23, 2013 at 2:12 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: Oh sure I could, I could do what christians do when they get caught being jerks; I can blame it on the devil.
TA DA! There you have it folks - and if no devil exists to blame 'sin' on, then no god exists either. See John, it's simple. No one to blame for the evil I do but me; likewise no one to blame when I am 'moral' but myself as well. Human morals 101 - god not included/no god required.

So after pretending to disagree, you agree with me.

Your story seems to be: I was a jerk for years, now I've been decent for three months.

I'm happy for your wife et. al., but it's not a very inspiring tale.

Unless the story was about how his Christian faith made him a jerk - just maybe - and that now he's given that shit up he's a better person.

That was a great read, FFF. Thank you for sharing. Also, I really like the communication you and your wife seem to have.

IMHO:

The moral of the story is that atheists can have a moral repertoire and that theists are wrong to assume that being atheist leads people to not have a reason to do so. After all, the thread is about "all this talk about morals". Has to do with the other threads...

(October 23, 2013 at 2:21 pm)max-greece Wrote: Unless the story was about how his Christian faith made him a jerk - just maybe - and that now he's given that shit up he's a better person.

I understand that was likely his intent - there's a forum just for this crap, but he chose to put it in the Christianity forum. I'm questioning the logic of that position.

If he's saying that Christianity necessarily turns people into pricks, then he needs to support that. Hence my question, Are you saying that Christians are necessarily pricks like you were?

I think most atheists have known some decent Christian people, though, so I doubt he wants to make that argument. Which means that Christianity doesn't necessarily make people pricks, and he could have been a decent person as a Christian if he had approached it differently.

(October 23, 2013 at 2:19 pm)John V Wrote:

(October 23, 2013 at 2:12 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: Oh sure I could, I could do what christians do when they get caught being jerks; I can blame it on the devil.
TA DA! There you have it folks - and if no devil exists to blame 'sin' on, then no god exists either. See John, it's simple. No one to blame for the evil I do but me; likewise no one to blame when I am 'moral' but myself as well. Human morals 101 - god not included/no god required.

So after pretending to disagree, you agree with me.

Your story seems to be: I was a jerk for years, now I've been decent for three months.

I'm happy for your wife et. al., but it's not a very inspiring tale.

Yes, but if I'd given your version of god the credit you'd be dancing down the aisles of your church praising the lord for aiding me in my marriage (3 days or 3 months). And for the record; I'm still a jerk, just less of one now that I take all the credit for my actions - good or bad.

(October 23, 2013 at 1:26 pm)Ivy Wrote:

(October 23, 2013 at 1:20 pm)John V Wrote: Are you saying that Christians are necessarily pricks like you were, or just that you weren't successful at Christianity?

I don't think he's saying that at all, John. I think he means:

Quote:In short, my ‘morals’ have improved exponentially since I have identified myself as atheist.

It's his experience.

Um sorry, atheism is not a moral code, it is merely a statement of position on one subject. If atheists forget that we are part of evolution, and not above it, we can and will do the very horrible things we accuse religion of doing. There is only one species and all of us are capable of the full range of human actions, good or bad.

(October 23, 2013 at 2:39 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(October 23, 2013 at 1:26 pm)Ivy Wrote: I don't think he's saying that at all, John. I think he means:


It's his experience.

Um sorry, atheism is not a moral code, it is merely a statement of position on one subject. If atheists forget that we are part of evolution, and not above it, we can and will do the very horrible things we accuse religion of doing. There is only one species and all of us are capable of the full range of human actions, good or bad.

Hence I said it's his experience.

(October 23, 2013 at 11:54 am)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: In short, my ‘morals’ have improved exponentially since I have identified myself as atheist.

If you're being good for the sake it because you feel like it and you're not "trying to impress God" then you're ironically closer to the Christian ideal of what you should ought to be doing. Perhaps God though atheism would do you some good.